> On 31 Oct 2019, at 14:36, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> If there was some deep existential problem you wanted to know more about I > >> can understand why you would want to discuss it with a mathematician or a > >> scientist, but why would you ask a expert on religion? Why would you > >> expect a theologian to give a better answer to the question "why is there > >> something rather than nothing?" than for example, an expert on gardening > >> or an expert on plumbing? > > > Because theology was at the start suppose to handle this subject and type > > of questioning, > > And in that theology failed spectacularly, not only did it fail to provide > any answers it couldn't even find the right questions to ask.
It provided science. Science is born from religion and the belief that there is a reality independent of us, which was the initial impetus of theology. You need perhaps to study a bit of history of science, but you have to keep in mind the fact that we are in the materialist era to get things right. > > > and in fact, it all begun with Pythagorus’ proposal that everything is > > explained by the natural numbers. > > And in that Pythagoras also failed, he couldn't even explain why the square > root of 2 is irrational He could explain this. Actually, the Babylonian already notice this, and Pythagorus re-discovered that important truth. It explains it by proving it. I am not sure what sort of explanation you ask for. A simple reasoning shows that if sqrt(2) was rational, it would consist in an irreducible fraction with an even numerator and an even denominator, which is of course impossible. > and thought one of the most important philosophical questions that needed > answering is why there are only 7 planets in the universe, 5 if you don't > count the sun and the moon. > > > Then Digital Mechanism (aka computationalism) comes back to explaining > > indeed everything with natural numbers . > > And nothing can understand those explanations unless there is something that > can process natural numbers, The definition of process in computer science is “implementation in a Turing universal environment”. Then it has been shown that the arithmetical reality, or even tiny fragment of it, are Turing universal. Here you invoke without saying your “god” Primary Matter. I am agnostic on this, but can explain why such God is incompatible with the assumption of digital Mechanism. > and for that you need a brain, and for that you need matter that obeys the > laws of physics. And so, this could follow only in a non mechanist theory of mind. > > >For example it can be proved that all axioms of Robinson Arithmetic(*) (RA) > >are independent of each other. None can be proved from the remaining one, > >and only the full seven axioms are Turing emulable. > > Matter that is organized in such a way that it operates according to Robinson > Arithmetic I don’t believe in Matter. I don’t do that assumption, as my goal is to explain Matter, in a non circular way. > (and of course the laws of physics) is Turing emulable, but naked axioms of > Robinson Arithmetic are not Turing emulable, Robinson arithmetic is Turing emulable. All Turing universal system can emulate any Turing universal system. > they are not anything emulable because they can't *DO* anything. In the same > way matter that has a correspondence with the blueprints of a 747 airliner > can fly you across the Pacific Ocean, but you can't fly across anything on > blueprints alone. > > >The idea that theology is not the fundamental science is an idea which [...] > > Forget fundamental, the idea that theology is a science of any sort is > idiotic . With statement like that, the charlatans in that domain will continue to win. Bruno > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1VDMyjDV4mss%3Dy6_9iwWMjg1JggPZiYyu1_5tVQwNOKw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1VDMyjDV4mss%3Dy6_9iwWMjg1JggPZiYyu1_5tVQwNOKw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/F592414D-84EE-4A89-A98F-8A65FC3271AF%40ulb.ac.be.
