On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 7:48:41 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:43:22 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 3:48:24 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 2:39:45 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 8:21:30 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 5:22:23 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:39 AM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Could it be the case that Casimir plates attract each other due >>>>>>>>> to electrostatic forces and not vacuum energy? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course not! Don't you thing getting rid of electrostatic forces >>>>>>>> would be the very first thing any even halfway competent experimental >>>>>>>> scientists would think of before he even dreamed of performing such a >>>>>>>> super >>>>>>>> delicate experiment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John K Clark >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Experiments done on the space shuttle and in Germany (where free >>>>>>> fall is simulated) have shown that dust particles accumulate due to >>>>>>> electrostatic forces, thus changing the model for how planets formed. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> if you read the excerpt from the Wiki article I posted, MIT physicists, >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> 1997 IIRC, were able to explain the Casimir effect without appealing to >>>>>>> vacuum energy. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If the two Casimir plates are grounded there will be no electrostatic >>>>>> potential between them. Elementary electricity. >>>>>> >>>>>> LC >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure how the MIT physicist did the experiment. I just know the >>>>> claim; that he accounted for the forces on the plates without need of >>>>> appealing to vacuum energy. I'll see if I can find the paper and post it. >>>>> AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> Try this, by another physicist: >>>> Proof that Casimir force does not originate from vacuum energy >>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.04143 AG >>>> >>> >>> There has to be something wrong. For one he says the EM Hamiltonian >>> commutes with the matter Hamiltonian, and so there is no interaction >>> between the EM field and matter. This would be the case if the matter >>> possesses no charges. There can be two Hamiltonians that commute with each >>> other, and it is the case the two sectors are independent. However, there >>> is the interaction H_i = ∫d^4x j*A that the two operators separately do not >>> have involution with. This is where the interaction happens. So I have >>> suspicions about this claim. >>> >>> LC >>> >> >> Then try this: The Casimir Effect and the Quantum Vacuum >> https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0503158 AG >> > > The above is authored by Robert L. Jaffe, another heavy dude! > https://web.mit.edu/physics/people/faculty/jaffe_robert.html AG >
Jaffe is more in line. He is just demonstrating how one gets the Casimir effect even if one removes the vacuum with procedures such as normal ordering. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8fac91d7-f3ac-49c2-b421-bc905838771c%40googlegroups.com.
