On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 7:48:41 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:43:22 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 3:48:24 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 2:39:45 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 8:21:30 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 5:22:23 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:39 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Could it be the case that Casimir plates attract each other due >>>>>>>>> to electrostatic forces and not vacuum energy? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course not! Don't you thing getting rid of electrostatic forces >>>>>>>> would be the very first thing any even halfway competent experimental >>>>>>>> scientists would think of before he even dreamed of performing such a >>>>>>>> super >>>>>>>> delicate experiment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John K Clark >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Experiments done on the space shuttle and in Germany (where free >>>>>>> fall is simulated) have shown that dust particles accumulate due to >>>>>>> electrostatic forces, thus changing the model for how planets formed. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> if you read the excerpt from the Wiki article I posted, MIT physicists, >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> 1997 IIRC, were able to explain the Casimir effect without appealing to >>>>>>> vacuum energy. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If the two Casimir plates are grounded there will be no electrostatic >>>>>> potential between them. Elementary electricity. >>>>>> >>>>>> LC >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure how the MIT physicist did the experiment. I just know the >>>>> claim; that he accounted for the forces on the plates without need of >>>>> appealing to vacuum energy. I'll see if I can find the paper and post it. >>>>> AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> Try this, by another physicist: >>>> Proof that Casimir force does not originate from vacuum energy >>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.04143 AG >>>> >>> >>> There has to be something wrong. For one he says the EM Hamiltonian >>> commutes with the matter Hamiltonian, and so there is no interaction >>> between the EM field and matter. This would be the case if the matter >>> possesses no charges. There can be two Hamiltonians that commute with each >>> other, and it is the case the two sectors are independent. However, there >>> is the interaction H_i = ∫d^4x j*A that the two operators separately do not >>> have involution with. This is where the interaction happens. So I have >>> suspicions about this claim. >>> >>> LC >>> >> >> Then try this: The Casimir Effect and the Quantum Vacuum >> https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0503158 AG >> > > The above is authored by Robert L. Jaffe, another heavy dude! > https://web.mit.edu/physics/people/faculty/jaffe_robert.html AG >
Jaffe is more in line. He is just demonstrating how one gets the Casimir effect even if one removes the vacuum with procedures such as normal ordering. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8fac91d7-f3ac-49c2-b421-bc905838771c%40googlegroups.com.
