On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:52:43 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 7:48:41 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:43:22 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 6:09:43 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 3:48:24 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 2:39:45 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 8:21:30 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 5:22:23 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:39 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > Could it be the case that Casimir plates attract each other due >>>>>>>>>> to electrostatic forces and not vacuum energy? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course not! Don't you thing getting rid of electrostatic forces >>>>>>>>> would be the very first thing any even halfway competent experimental >>>>>>>>> scientists would think of before he even dreamed of performing such a >>>>>>>>> super >>>>>>>>> delicate experiment? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John K Clark >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Experiments done on the space shuttle and in Germany (where free >>>>>>>> fall is simulated) have shown that dust particles accumulate due to >>>>>>>> electrostatic forces, thus changing the model for how planets formed. >>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>> if you read the excerpt from the Wiki article I posted, MIT >>>>>>>> physicists, in >>>>>>>> 1997 IIRC, were able to explain the Casimir effect without appealing >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> vacuum energy. AG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the two Casimir plates are grounded there will be no >>>>>>> electrostatic potential between them. Elementary electricity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LC >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure how the MIT physicist did the experiment. I just know >>>>>> the claim; that he accounted for the forces on the plates without need >>>>>> of >>>>>> appealing to vacuum energy. I'll see if I can find the paper and post >>>>>> it. >>>>>> AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Try this, by another physicist: >>>>> Proof that Casimir force does not originate from vacuum energy >>>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.04143 AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> There has to be something wrong. For one he says the EM Hamiltonian >>>> commutes with the matter Hamiltonian, and so there is no interaction >>>> between the EM field and matter. This would be the case if the matter >>>> possesses no charges. There can be two Hamiltonians that commute with each >>>> other, and it is the case the two sectors are independent. However, there >>>> is the interaction H_i = ∫d^4x j*A that the two operators separately do >>>> not >>>> have involution with. This is where the interaction happens. So I have >>>> suspicions about this claim. >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>> >>> Then try this: The Casimir Effect and the Quantum Vacuum >>> https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0503158 AG >>> >> >> The above is authored by Robert L. Jaffe, another heavy dude! >> https://web.mit.edu/physics/people/faculty/jaffe_robert.html AG >> > > > Jaffe is more in line. He is just demonstrating how one gets the Casimir > effect even if one removes the vacuum with procedures such as normal > ordering. > > LC >
Which suggests the vacuum energy has nothing to do with the Casimir effect (if you get the same result by removing the vacuum!) AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1e83d600-8413-433b-a0f9-5a3f631d027a%40googlegroups.com.
