On 5/23/2020 11:38 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 1:35 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
On 5/23/2020 1:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
<everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
On 5/22/2020 1:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 3:27 PM 'Brent Meeker' via
Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
On 8/4/2019 10:44 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019, 'Brent Meeker' via
Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
On 8/2/2019 1:06 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 1:40 PM 'Brent Meeker' via
Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
On 8/2/2019 11:03 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
> It is like Saibal Mitra said, the person he
was when he was 3 is
> dead. Too much information was added to his
brain. If his 3 year old
> self were suddenly replaced with his much
older self, you would
> conclude the 3 year old was destroyed, but
when gradual changes are
> made, day by day, common-sense and
convention maintains that the
> 3-year-old was not destroyed, and still
lives. This is the
> inconsistency of continuity theories.
On the contrary I'd say it illustrates the
consistency of causal
continuity theories.
Your close friend walks into a black box, and
emerges 1 hour later.
In case A, he was destroyed in a discontinuous
way, and a new version of that person was formed
having the mind of your friend as it might have
been 1 hour later.
In case B, he sat around for an hour before emerging.
You later meet up with the entity who emerges from
this black box for coffee.
From your point of view, neither case A nor B is
physically distinguishable. Yet under your casual
continuity theory, your friend has either died or
survived entering the black box. You have no way
of knowing if the entity you are having coffee
with is your friend or not. Is this a legitimate
and consistent way of looking at the world?
Did the black box take A's information in order to
copy him, or did it make a copy accidentally.
Would that change the result?
Holevo's theorem says it's impossible to copy A's state.
It's a thought experiment. Do you think the quantum state is
relevant? One typically doesn't track of the quantum state
of their friend's atoms and use that information as part of
their recognition process.
Incidentally, my not knowing the difference between
two things is not very good evidence that they are
the same.
That there's no physical experiment, even in principle,
that could differentiate the two cases, I take as
evidence that notions of identity holding there to be a
difference are illusory.
But you haven't postulated a case in which it is
impossible to differentiate the two cases. It's not
clear what degree of differentiation is relevant.
If Holebo's theorem remains fundamental problems, then let's
move everything into virtual reality, and repeat the experiment.
In one case your friend's mind file is deleted and restored
from a backup, and in another he continued without
interruption. Do not the same conclusions I suggest follow?
So you're postulating that your friend has been duplicated
but in a way that you have no way of knowing. And then you
ask, "Is this a legitimate and consistent way of looking at
the world?" I guess I don't understand the question. If you
have no way of knowing, then you don't know...ex hypothesi.
Brnet
My point is that identity is an intrinsic property of what
something is now. The history of the of the constituent particles
have no affect on the behaviors or operation of those particles.
To say the history is relevant to identity is to add an arbitrary
extrinsic property which can be of no physical relevance.
This is a direct consequence of QM, you can't distinguish two
electrons, from each other.
But they still have locations and histories, c.f. Griffiths
consistent histories interpretation of QM or Feynmann's path
integral QM. When electrons make spots on the film in an EPR
experiment the electron that made this spot is not identical with
the electron that made that spot in the sense of being the same
electron.
And in any case I don't see how the sameness of particles implies
the sameness of complex structures made of particles, i.e. persons.
The indistinguishability of two electrons, means there's no detectable
difference between Person A assembled from *this* pile of atoms, and
Person B (of a same structure to Person A) made from *that* pile of
atoms. The history of the atoms is of no importance to their function.
And you and I might be made from exactly the same set of atoms which
have, over time, switched which of our bodies they constitute. But that
wouldn't make us the same person. So I don't understand your point
about personal identity. The fact that the history of the particles is
irrelevant doesn't make the history of complexes like persons irrelevant
to their identity.
Brent
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