On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 11:39 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 7/21/2020 9:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 9:47 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On 7/21/2020 7:01 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 7:11 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Besides, it's silly to say one "has" a plane of simultaneity and >>> therefore everything in the past of that plane is fixed. You might as well >>> say one has a future and therefore everything one's life is past and >>> therefore fixed. >>> >> >> Rietdijk and Hilary Putnam both argued relativity implies determinism and >> existence of all points in time. Minkowski, Einstein, Penrose all supported >> the idea. Feynman diagrams and his explanation of antimatter imply the >> existence of the future. >> >> Strange, yes, it's not how we evolved to interpret reality. But I >> wouldn't say it's silly, I think it's an inescapable conclusion of the four >> dimensional reality implied by relativity. >> >> >> But all it proves is that there are coordinate values there. It doesn't >> prove anything about determinism. >> >> Brent >> >> > If there is an objective reality beyond our immediate local vicinity, and > if there is no privileged reference frame, then your present and my present > contain different content. > > > You're assuming your present has some great extent, which is unjustified. > > Brent > Do you believe the sun exists? Jason > Some of the space-time events of my present are in your future, and others > are in your past, and vice versa. > > There are three consistent ways out of this: > 1. There are privileged reference frames > 2. There is no objective reality > 3. All events in space-time are equally real > > Jason > > >> >> Jason >> >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> "What is there? Everything! So what isn't there? Nothing!" >>> --- Norm Levitt, after Quine >>> >>> On 7/21/2020 4:38 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> I calculated the time difference for the two observers moving, 128km/hr >>> or about .036km/sec, that their relative time with Andromeda is less than a >>> second. >>> >>> We have a problem with defining nothingness. Is there nothingness? Well >>> this implies nothingness can exist, and if it exists is is not nothing. If >>> nothingness does not exist then of course by definition there is something >>> that exists. Of course this is a bit of a semantics game. but in QFT the >>> closest we have to nothingness is the vacuum state, where this can >>> transition into a new vacuum to produce particles. >>> >>> LC >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 1:15:08 PM UTC-5 Jason wrote: >>> >>>> I recently came across a paper by C. W. Rietdijk (who is perhaps most >>>> famous for using special relativity to prove the existence >>>> <https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Rietdijk%E2%80%93Putnam_argument> of a >>>> pre-determined, timeless, physical reality) in 1966. >>>> >>>> As it turns out, he was active and publishing into his 90s, and in 2018 >>>> published: >>>> >>>> "*Four-dimensional reality continued.* The implications of the block >>>> universe for the origin of matter, consciousness and a possible afterlife. >>>> The Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen paradox and its role in four dimensions" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have found much of it to be fascinating and also in line with Bruno's >>>> theories. For example, some excerpts: >>>> >>>> >>>> In the beginning, there was only truth, logic and their relation. No >>>> possible reality can do without them. >>>> >>>> As we move from a 3D to a 4D theory of the Universe, several crucial >>>> questions need to be asked and answered. One of the most important of those >>>> questions concerns the creation of matter. In this section, we deal with >>>> this question and ask ourselves: Was matter actually created and how >>>> *real* is it? >>>> >>>> In 4D a Big Bang is both inconceivable and irrelevant; a 4D universe is >>>> static—there are no changes in the time direction, therefore a transition >>>> from a Universal Void to the existence of matter cannot be. In both 3D and >>>> 4D, we must start from the irrefutable fact that “something” must have >>>> always been there, and we believe this to be the laws of nature. Voltaire’s >>>> argument about the existence of God (No watch without a watchmaker) begs >>>> the question who created the watch*maker*, unless we assume that the >>>> laws of nature and the universe created themselves. It is our firm belief >>>> that the Pythagorean theorem needs not be created, nor the fact that the >>>> circumference of a circle is 3.14… times the diameter; the laws of nature >>>> and the collection of truths, values and their interrelations are >>>> primordial and have always existed. The fundamental stuff of the Universe >>>> in 4D consists of logic, mathematics and natural law, which of course exist >>>> and always have existed. It seems impossible to eliminate truths, values, >>>> etc., from the Universe. Note that in a deterministic conception, there is >>>> only one universe. This is the universe that we see; a static 4D universe >>>> which is not void. >>>> >>>> The laws of nature—which have always existed—imply that intelligence >>>> has always existed and has always been present, with its correlates >>>> “experience” and “Aha-erlebnis,” perceivable to man here and now. It would >>>> seem that intelligence must have preceded everything, but in our search for >>>> the origin of matter, we cannot content ourselves by simply stating that >>>> (3D) matter is produced by intelligence. It *is* possible from the >>>> concept of completed intelligence (viz., intelligence including experience >>>> and the Aha-erlebnis), to create the deceptive *suggestion* of the >>>> existence of matter, experienced in a collective dream, dreamed by living, >>>> intelligent beings. This is what we consider to be consciousness. The >>>> recognition of the differences between patterns is an Aha-erlebnis. >>>> >>>> The elementary particles as we know them form patterns, including very >>>> implicit or hidden patterns. The marker points and their patterns are the >>>> way Intelligence orders all that exists in the world, including feelings, >>>> thoughts, colors, sounds, etc. We hypothesize that the microparticles in >>>> the Universe form Universal patterns, or abstract, theoretical points that >>>> answer to the laws of nature, formulas and logical principles; the common >>>> coordinate points in the Universe. These points form a kind of skeleton of >>>> the grand pattern of the collective “dream;” a blueprint or map of the >>>> Universe. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b763eea7-3ebb-4c5f-93fb-b99633e42ca0n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b763eea7-3ebb-4c5f-93fb-b99633e42ca0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8b9d9320-e04a-8f1d-4e58-2bcebf9605a8%40verizon.net >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8b9d9320-e04a-8f1d-4e58-2bcebf9605a8%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUjGM70NxdddQLBP_MhW7Lq9vE_inemgptZyNGGogpUczQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUjGM70NxdddQLBP_MhW7Lq9vE_inemgptZyNGGogpUczQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/50c4dd3c-786c-a511-e050-997c9d61fd7a%40verizon.net >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/50c4dd3c-786c-a511-e050-997c9d61fd7a%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUgJexhkGRtd%2Bo2HGMe5hmhd3S3TQRo1d9T1ZSqAu2aOeQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUgJexhkGRtd%2Bo2HGMe5hmhd3S3TQRo1d9T1ZSqAu2aOeQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/419a3411-5b4a-3f5f-359d-fac4024d0082%40verizon.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/419a3411-5b4a-3f5f-359d-fac4024d0082%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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