On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 1:46:54 PM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 4:38:20 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > >> On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 10:03:36 PM UTC-5 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> If such a theory could be constructed, it would have particles to >>> manifest excited states, called gravitons. But for a BH, gravitons >>> generated by its mass couldn't escape, so they couldn't function as force >>> carrying particles as in other quantum field theories. We'd still need >>> Einstein's GR to account for the gravitational "force" via curvature of >>> space-time. So what would a quantum theory of gravity buy us? Why do we >>> need it? AG >>> >> >> The way you state this illustrates considerable confusion and in these >> threads I and others have indicated how to think of this. This does not >> involve gravitons coming out of black holes. You have repeated this error a >> number of times. >> > > What error are you referring to? I was just POSTULATING that IF a quantum > theory of gravity is possible, gravitons would exist but couldn't escape a > BH and thus couldn't function as force carrying particles analogous to > photons for QED. We'd still need Einstein's theory of gravity based on > curvature of space-time to explain the gravity field external to a BH. So > what would be gained from such a quantum theory? I have no problem with > gravitons existing in a weak field approximation of GR, and this being a > linear quantum theory. AG > It is not the case that gravitons come out of a black hole to intermediate a force between it and some other mass. From the perspective of an exterior observer all mass-energy and quantum fields that make up a black hole are on the event horizon or just above. This is why I got into the whole Tortoise coordinates and so forth. I will have to leave it here I think. LC > >> A weak low energy quantum gravitation is easy to derive. The low energy >> limit of gravitation is linear because terms in the curvature involving the >> square of connection terms are much smaller. This makes gravitation and >> gravitational waves linear. Quantization is not much different from >> quantizing electrodynamics in QED. The gravitational waves detected by the >> LIGO are long wavelength and with small amplitude. There should be >> signatures of gravitons there which would be linear. As the wavelength >> shortens the energy increases and as this approaches TeV and higher energy >> the nonlinear terms become appreciable. The nonlinear feature of >> gravitation, and that it is an exterior fibration so the field correlates >> direction with the quantum wave, means this is a nonlinear quantum >> mechanics, which is a contradiction of quantum mechanics. >> >> LC >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ea852857-dc3a-45fb-9af9-b0e26cc0f8een%40googlegroups.com.
