[Brent Meeker]
"Julian Barbour had a metaphor in which the multiverse is like a river with
infinitely many streamlines...... evolution produced consciousness in order to
provide understandable and predictive pictures".
[Philip Benjamin]
The phrase "in order to provide" is 'consciously' used here, buy simply
connotes purpose and meaning which are foreign to evolutionary notions of
randomness devoid of direction. The whole idea of multiverse is contrary to all
laws of logic and the fundamental physical law of conservation of mass and
energy. Matter-wave duality is a misrepresentation of particles behaving AS IF
waveforms. What is needed here is AS IF logic not Both & fallacy. Furthermore
"multiverse" will require a multiverse chemistry to be meaningful in anyway,
especially for any biosphere. Bio dark-matter with bio dark-matter chemistry
(chemical bonds or spin governed duets and octets) with
biophoton emissions as evidence of dark and light chemical bond interactions is
more reasonable.
Augustine's consciousness was instantly transformed form paganism to
non-paganism (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine).
He considered Plato as a great thinker who "understood the eternal truth"
consistent with Biblical ideology. Plato's metaphysics and epistemology molded
Augustine's understanding of the Biblical Deity as a source of absolute
goodness and truth. This idea mirrored Plato's thinking of "forms", where every
object in the universe is a representation of a perfect idea of that entity--
a tree is an imperfect version of a perfect form of a tree. Augustine
"baptized" Platonism into Scriptural norms and thus pulled the West form the
Greco-Roman pagan superstitions. For Augustine the Biblical God is the source
of the forms. Who is the Biblical God, other than Adonai (plural) YHWH
(singular) Elohim (uni-plural)? That is an impossible concept for
un-Augustinian Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism)-WAMP-the-Ingrate. Augustine
concluded that what is really beautiful cannot be seen with our eyes at all.
Knowledge of beauty is richer than its sight, it is the knowledge of the very
source and creator of all beauty, who is God Himself, through light of faith
and virtue (Confessions, Trans. Gary Wills, Penguin Classics; Deluxe Edition,
January 31, 2006 as quoted at
https://intellectualcharity.org/2013/10/27/augustine-on-beauty/).
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Born's rule from almost nothing
Julian Barbour had a metaphor in which the multiverse is like a river with
infinitely many streamlines which differ only at a microscopic level where they
can interfere but it makes no difference at the macroscopic level of the river.
But there can be divisions by islands in the stream that split the river into
macroscopically different rivers with different destinations. The split isn't
absolute. The islands are permeable. But statistically they are almost
absolute.
I don't agree that consciousness is the differentiation. The problem with that
view is that there are many macroscopic splits which are not noticed by any
consciousness. But may be inferred much later. Sure it takes consciousness
(or some kind) to infer them later, but that inference fails to produce an
understandable and predictive picture if the split is not placed in the
past...and evolution produced consciousness in order to provide understandable
and predictive pictures.
Brent
On 1/6/2021 5:19 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
I think there is no split, but continuous differentiation. So there is always
an infinity of worlds. Or there is no world at all and only consciousness
differentiation.
Quentin
Le mer. 6 janv. 2021 à 14:17, scerir via Everything List
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> a
écrit :
Worlds, worlds. What are these worlds? When a pig observes a Young
interferometer does this pig create worlds? Does this pig split worlds? Or not,
because there is not full consciousness? And in Alpha Centauri, where there
are no pigs, no humans, no consciousness, no Young interferometers? No Franson
interferometers either ...
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Inviato da Libero Mail per Android
Mercoledì, 06 Gennaio 2021, 01:28PM +01:00 da Quentin Anciaux
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>:
Here a schema:
[cid:MPkJlcGijMy48tFO]
After 3 experiments, you have *8* worlds... each with the memory of the initial
experiment, 4 of the 2nd version A and for of the 2nd version B... etc
Every *worlds* has a past which is linked directly with the previous experiment
and to the initial experiment... in each world there is an ensemble of 3
results.
Quentin
Le mer. 6 janv. 2021 à 13:01, Alan Grayson
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> a écrit :
I should have been more explicit; since the trials are independent, the other
worlds implied by the MWI for any particular trial, are unrelated to the other
worlds created for any OTHER particular trial. Thus, each other world has an
ensemble with one element, insufficient for the existence of probabilities. AG
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 4:41:57 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:33:52 AM UTC-7
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 10:05 PM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> One world contains an Alan Grayson that sees the electron go left, another
>> world is absolutely identical in every way except that it contains a Alan
>> Grayson that sees the electron go right. So you tell me, which of those 2
>> worlds is "THIS WORLD"?
> It's the world where a living being can observe the trials being measured.
> The other world is in your imagination (if you believe in the MWI). AG
>From that response I take it you have abandoned your attempt to poke logical
>holes in the Many Worlds Interpretation and instead have resorted to a pure
>emotional appeal; namely that there must be a fundamental law of physics that
>says anything Alan Grayson finds to be odd cannot exist, and Alan Grayson
>finds many Worlds to be odd. Personally I find Many Worlds to be odd too,
>although it's the least odd of all the quantum interpretations, however I
>don't think nature cares very much if you or I approve of it or not. From
>experimentation it's clear to me that if Many Worlds is not true then
>something even stranger is.
I have no idea whatsoever, how you reached your conclusions above. There are
things called laboratories, where physicists conduct experiments, some of which
are quantum experiments with probabilistic outcomes. The world in which such
things exist, I call THIS world. Worlds postulated to exist based on the claim
that any possible measurement, must be a realized measurement in another world,
I call OTHER worlds. Those OTHER worlds are imagined to exist based on the MWI.
These are simple facts. I am not making any emotional appeals to anything. The
possible oddness of the Cosmos is not affirmed or denied here. I agree the
Cosmos might be odd, possibly very odd, but this has nothing to do with our
discussion. The core of my argument is that since the trial outcomes in quantum
experiments are independent of one another, there's no reason to claim that
each of the OTHER worlds accumulates ensembles, as an ensemble is created in
THIS world. Without ensembles in those OTHER worlds, the MWI fails to affirm
the existence of probability in any of those OTHER worlds. AG
See my new list at
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