> That is not at all what Rovelli says. You still see red, but you have
> learned that it is due to 564-580nm photons exciting neurons in your eye
> (b) and not rays reaching out from your eyes to contact redness (a).
I am afraid that it will not work this way. To show this, I have
attached a picture from David Gamez, Human and Machine Consciousness,
2018. Primary and secondary qualities are not essential, what is
important that manifest world (bubble of experience on the picture) is
spatially separated from the external world (black and white part).
Photons from red flowers belongs to the external world but a person sees
the red flowers somewhere else.
The spacial separation of the two worlds sometimes is referred to as the
virtual world theory (Gamez's book is good illustration to this end).
This directly follows from what you have written - information comes
into the eyes and it does not come out. So the manifest world that the
person sees is completely separated from the external physical world.
One could claim that the external world is still similar to the manifest
world as on the attached figure. Yet the main point of Hoffman's book
that evolution must produce an opposite result. So provided we believe
in evolution we must say that the attached picture is wrong. Rather we
should talk about pic. 2.7 on the link below - that is, about a thing in
itself.
https://www.openbookpublishers.com/htmlreader/978-1-78374-298-1/ch2.xhtml
Evgenii
Am 30.03.2021 um 03:29 schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List:
On 3/29/2021 5:17 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
Rovelli is a loop quantum gravitation maven. This is a very
ontological physics, and explains in part Rovelli's stance. The though
has occurred to me that maybe LQG states are the kernel of some sort
of target map. Either than or they are epistemic/ontologically
uncertain and in an epistemic setting target map to zero.
LC
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 2:05:33 PM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote:
I have read Rovelli's paper. I am disappointed. What Rovelli
suggest is eliminativism. Red (a) (what I see) does not exist but
red (b) (electromagnetic wave peaking near 564–580 nm) exists.
That is not at all what Rovelli says. You still see red, but you have
learned that it is due to 564-580nm photons exciting neurons in your eye
(b) and not rays reaching out from your eyes to contact redness (a).
Rovelli is replacing one conceptualization with another...and telling us
we should not become overly attached to a conceptualization. I'm
reminded of Lemaitre advising the Pope to not tie faith in the creation
to the Big Bang.
Rovelli should have read first:
Donald D. Hoffman. The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the
Truth from Our Eyes, 2019.
I don't think Rovelli would have any argument with it. He certainly
doesn't hold that the manifest world, which evolution has provided, is
the real world. Physics is all about using instruments and experiments
and theories to find a more comprehensive and consistent concept of the
world that produces the manifest world.
Brent
Evgenii
Brent schrieb am Sonntag, 28. März 2021 um 00:35:27 UTC+1:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
*The Old Fisherman's Mistake*
ROVELLI, Carlo (2021)
Abstract
A number of thorny issues such as the nature of time, free
will, the clash of the manifest and scientific images, the
possibility of a naturalistic foundation of morality, and
perhaps even the possibility of accounting for consciousness
in naturalistic terms, seem to me to be plagued by the
conceptual confusion nourished by a single fallacy: the old
fisherman's mistake.
http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/18837/1/Pescatore.pdf
<http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/18837/1/Pescatore.pdf>
Rovelli has it exactly right.
Brent
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