On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 4:40:08 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2021, at 13:55, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 5:21:46 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 9 Apr 2021, at 06:42, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> When the box is closed, and before the measurement, why can't it be >> claimed that the Cat is in a Mixed State, not a Superposition of States? >> Only the latter leads to the paradox of a cat which is Alive and Dead >> simultaneously. AG >> >> >> >> Because the Wave equation in this setting leads to a pure state >> dead+alive, and twe know that such pure state leads to different prediction >> than any possible corresponding mixed states. (Assuming the SWE). >> > > *Without any mathematical representation of the individual states of Dead > and Alive, how can it be claimed that Dead and Alive each satisfy the SWE? * > > > By NOT adding the collapse postulate. Then even a state as “macroscopic” > as being a dead or alive cat will inherit the superposition ilmplied by > Schroedinger’s setting. That follows from the double linearly of both the > wave evolution and of the tensor products. The fact that a correct > description would use a huge number of dimension and a lot of tensor > products cannot be used to make the superposition going away. > > > > > > *And how will the superposition of states Dead + Alive give different > predictions than a mixed state of Dead and Alive? AG * > > > Because all pure superposition state gives different predictions than > their corresponding mixed state. > *Is this your idea of a proof, or even a plausibility argument? AG* > Of course, it is technologically hopeless to maintain a real cat is a real > superposition, but this is only due to our technical impossibility to > isolate the cat from us. The cat state will leak to us very quickly, and we > will lose the mean to get the sign of interferences. Yet, without assuming > some collapse, it is there forever… > > That is a confirmation of mechanism, where an infinity of distinguishable > computations access our (relative) states, and makes us possibly diverging > into an infinity of alternate histories/computations. > > The burden of the proof belongs to those who claim that there is an > ontological physical reality, but then you got the “mind-body” problem, the > “why there is something” problem, and also, you need to speculate of a non > mechanist theory in psychology and biology (making Darwin loosing all its > explanative power). > > There are tuns of evidences for Mechanism, and none for Materialism, as we > know since the Dream Argument, given that “evidences” are dream-able. > > (Many people confuse the evidences for the physical laws, which are number > relations, with evidences for an ontological physical universes, but those > are different. The ontological question is a metaphysical question, not a > physical question. It is to used in any paper of physics, even if implicit > in the mind of some cosmologists … perhaps. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> That’s true even if the box is open, but in that case, the pure state >> will be lifted to the observer of the cat, who will become itself in a pure >> state of seeing the cat dead and the cat alive, in parallel histories. In >> this case, the indeterminacy is explained entirely by the same >> indeterminacy occurring in, amoeba self-division, or in the infinite >> multiplication of all relative universal number state in arithmetic. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/750f52a9-1316-47db-9b00-cca531c2b527n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/750f52a9-1316-47db-9b00-cca531c2b527n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a9ae7591-ebb1-482b-a2d4-a07a73ca588dn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a9ae7591-ebb1-482b-a2d4-a07a73ca588dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b0bc2f61-e8a2-4cd1-ac63-2815f3f26ddfn%40googlegroups.com.
