> On 14 Apr 2021, at 16:33, Alan Grayson <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 4:40:08 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> On 10 Apr 2021, at 13:55, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com
>> <applewebdata://37C0AD2C-3080-4CA5-9A03-BB5368466AF4>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 5:21:46 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> On 9 Apr 2021, at 06:42, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com <>> wrote:
>>>
>>> When the box is closed, and before the measurement, why can't it be claimed
>>> that the Cat is in a Mixed State, not a Superposition of States? Only the
>>> latter leads to the paradox of a cat which is Alive and Dead
>>> simultaneously. AG
>>
>>
>> Because the Wave equation in this setting leads to a pure state dead+alive,
>> and twe know that such pure state leads to different prediction than any
>> possible corresponding mixed states. (Assuming the SWE).
>>
>> Without any mathematical representation of the individual states of Dead and
>> Alive, how can it be claimed that Dead and Alive each satisfy the SWE?
>
> By NOT adding the collapse postulate. Then even a state as “macroscopic” as
> being a dead or alive cat will inherit the superposition ilmplied by
> Schroedinger’s setting. That follows from the double linearly of both the
> wave evolution and of the tensor products. The fact that a correct
> description would use a huge number of dimension and a lot of tensor products
> cannot be used to make the superposition going away.
>
>
>
>
>
>> And how will the superposition of states Dead + Alive give different
>> predictions than a mixed state of Dead and Alive? AG
>
> Because all pure superposition state gives different predictions than their
> corresponding mixed state.
>
> Is this your idea of a proof, or even a plausibility argument? AG
It is elementary quantum mechanics. If you measure “1/sqrt(2)(spin-up +
spin-down)” is the base {spin-up, spin-down}, you get different results than
measuring a half-half mixture of spin-up and spin-dow. This is usually
illustrate with polarisers in the textbook.
Bruno
>
> Of course, it is technologically hopeless to maintain a real cat is a real
> superposition, but this is only due to our technical impossibility to isolate
> the cat from us. The cat state will leak to us very quickly, and we will lose
> the mean to get the sign of interferences. Yet, without assuming some
> collapse, it is there forever…
>
> That is a confirmation of mechanism, where an infinity of distinguishable
> computations access our (relative) states, and makes us possibly diverging
> into an infinity of alternate histories/computations.
>
> The burden of the proof belongs to those who claim that there is an
> ontological physical reality, but then you got the “mind-body” problem, the
> “why there is something” problem, and also, you need to speculate of a non
> mechanist theory in psychology and biology (making Darwin loosing all its
> explanative power).
>
> There are tuns of evidences for Mechanism, and none for Materialism, as we
> know since the Dream Argument, given that “evidences” are dream-able.
>
> (Many people confuse the evidences for the physical laws, which are number
> relations, with evidences for an ontological physical universes, but those
> are different. The ontological question is a metaphysical question, not a
> physical question. It is to used in any paper of physics, even if implicit in
> the mind of some cosmologists … perhaps.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> That’s true even if the box is open, but in that case, the pure state will
>> be lifted to the observer of the cat, who will become itself in a pure state
>> of seeing the cat dead and the cat alive, in parallel histories. In this
>> case, the indeterminacy is explained entirely by the same indeterminacy
>> occurring in, amoeba self-division, or in the infinite multiplication of all
>> relative universal number state in arithmetic.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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