> On 11 Jul 2021, at 13:03, Tomas Pales <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Saturday, July 10, 2021 at 11:34:28 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote: > > I think this kind of talk puts far too much on consciousness. Conscious > thoughts seem to pop into my head with no antecedents, yet they relate to > past and distant things in my experience. The Poincare' effect shows that > even the most abstract thought is largely unconscious. > > What is Poincare effect? > > Consciousness seems to be the necessary basis of personal identity: "I am > conscious therefore I am". Of course it depends on unconscious parts of the > brain, the rest of the body and the environment; where to draw the boundary > of personal identity is somewhat blurry.
Indeed. No machine can know which machine she is, nor which computations support her. There are infinitely any computations supporting her in arithmetic, and that is why physics becomes a statistics on infinitely many computations, which leads to a many-histories interpretation of elementary arithmetic, and physics should get at it, which is basically what we get with quantum mechanics without collapse. In physics, usually those who likes the collapse speculation are those who speculate on a non mechanist theory of consciousness. With Mechanism, Consciousness is simply the believe in a reality conjuncted with some reality (which can be proved to be impossible to define by the machine, and which explains why consciousness is both obvious and non definable). Consciousness is basically given by <>t v t, trivial in the first person view, but with a component (<>t) unprovable by the machine. We get all Platonic (Parmenidian, also) mode of self-reference as they are imposed by incompleteness. What Lucas and Penrose did not see is that the Universal+ machine can prove their own incompleteness, and be aware that there might be something beyond their experience. Bruno > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/99d9e41c-1c13-437b-bf56-94ec04c77d2bn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/99d9e41c-1c13-437b-bf56-94ec04c77d2bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9521F6E3-FF75-4DFE-ABE8-F75748B55FB6%40ulb.ac.be.
