My view, not that my view counts for much, is that once a person hits 16, whoever they bed down with is on them. That somebody took advantage of their youth stretches credulity if that person is not physically or mentally disabled. 15 I could see yeah for immaturity, but at the point of obtaining a drivers license or firearms, for me, the protection stops. Also, in the US, The Church has cash and this is an easy target for pissed off choir boys and their money enchanted attorneys. This often sells to a jury (US) but if the youths are of normal circumstances, it is their choice. The same (according to me) is to be extended to incident in public schools. Pregnancies notwithstanding. It's my view and I'm sticking with it. We have to grow up sometime.
-----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.net> To: Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2022 4:10 am Subject: Re: Christian Adolf and adolfic Christians [was: Re: What Threshold Threat of CO2] > I assure you I have not invented satanism. Oh, if you meant plural > "you", and me being a member of some group, I do not think I am a > member of such a group. Groups with which I identify the most are: I meant "you" the Christians, but I shouldn't have phrased it like that, granted. > - harcerze = Polish scouts. I was very briefly a member. They were > always a bit suspicious. But also a bit too good for this. And trust > me, if we ever invented satanism, we would have badges for it. > > - programmers - I consider myself one, but a really lousy one. Hard to > tell, perhaps we did it. But there would have been constant > disagreement about which programming platform to use for promotion > and miscreant behaviour. Anyway, traces of this should be on github. > > - engineers - ok, I have a degree but trust me, you will not want to > drive over my bridge and I will never stand under any built by > myself. But overally, we engineers are the most probably culprit. A > capable engineer, two hundred years ago, would stand up an > industrial complex from the grounds up. Some of us are good > planners. I tell you what, if you ever acquire evidence it was > engineers' plot, than man, you better stop fighting and join us. > > - thinkers - well, I am kind of on/off member. Thinkers like theory a > lot but we are total and absolute loosers in this world. If you find > evidence it was thinkers who did satanism, you will give us a great > honor by considering us fight-worthy. They will make a movie about > us, thousand against one you, us loosing patheticaly, most of times > by very funny accidents with self made weapons. > > - antropologists - well, we antopologists are even bigger loosers. And > I am just an amateur (never did anything to pursue degree), so an > even lousier one. If you find us to be guilty, you can just let us > go. We will keep talking about Satan, about connection between > country shape on a map and form of Satan venerated in that country, > taking notes of each other's talk. Really, if you decide to fight > antropologists, people will laugh at you and make jokes of you. Believe it or not I am also a lousy programmer and had formal education as an engineer (even though I have a hard time seeing myself as one) who has done some research with anthropologists: https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01429067/file/eScholarship%20UC%20item%205p57j1jm.pdf I always thought that scouts were the best part of Catholicism and I almost joined at some point. >> Satanism is the fucking pure unadulterated narcissistic >> projection of christian crimes. Fucking children? Priests are the >> ones doing it by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Just in Europe, by the >> way, no USA needed for this one: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Europe >> >> And the pope and the cardinals are all still protecting them and >> conspiring to hide evidence. > > Ok, here the jokes end. It is a tragedy that children were being > abused and it is huge shame for Church. You are very much right. It > would be a better world, if the people involved could be subject of > legal proceedings, rather than hiding and hushhushing. > > Still, if you are trying to make a case that rapings had anything to > do with religious duties, I do not think so. They happened while > priests were performing religious duties, but crimes were not > integral (required) part of those duties. And I do not think it is > possible to defend a thesis, that some kind of God veneration was > linked to child abuse. Child abuse committed by Catholic priests is so incredibly common that there must be something about being a Catholic priest that either attracts people prone to these behaviors and/or triggers such behaviors. I suspect that there are three things that play a huge role: (1) The vow of celibacy (2) The association of normal sexual desires with guilt from a young age (3) The exclusion of women from priesthood All of these are catholic dogmas, and they produce a certain outcome, and the Catholics refuse to face this. > For the purpose of this thread, I devised a very simple test. A crime > usually yields some positive value for perpetrators. If the whole of > the value had been transferred to their superiors, the church, some > kind of entity like this, than of course the crime was being done for > religious purpose... or at least there is a strong case to say so. So, > in simper worlds, if perps were doing it all for free, without > personal gains. The hiding of the crimes and their scale by the Catholic hierarchy was done very much for personal gain, to preserve the (immense) power and wealth of the Vatican. > In this case (child abuse), perps achieved sexual pleasure (I guess), > which by its very nature could not be transferred. So there is a > strong basis to say that they were satiating their instincts, rather > than doing it for their faith. > >> How dare you? > > Uhumm. How dare I what exactly? How dare I to think? How dare I not be > manipulated into emotional reaction? How dare you invoke "satanism", an invention and psychosis of Christians that also did incredible harm to innocent people, to deflect from the other crimes of Christianity? This is what I find particularly distasteful. Maybe you didn't mean it like that. A lot of people do. I know Catholicism very well from the inside (against my will) and I am used to their silly rhetoric. They love to pretend that they are ultimately a force for good, fighting these silly shadowy threats (that they invented). The inquisition already did this. For example, the famous demon "Baphomet", one of the most archetypal "satanic" images, probably emerged from a victim of the inquisition coming up with something to confess to stop the torture, and trying to say "I worship Muhammad", but after all the torture he was slurring his words and the inquisitor heard "Baphomet". This is my favorite hypothesis, but I am not sure it is true. But I am sure that Baphomet was invented by the inquisition during their prosecution of the Knights Templar in a war for... power and money. And to this day, we still have the QAnon crowd worrying about ritual sacrifices of children to Baphomet. > Because I am afraid you have been manipulated. I have been manipulated into thinking that there is something wrong with an organization that has 1/4 million of child abuse cases to its name just in Europe? And whose leaders did and do all they can to hide it? Can you imagine how religious people would react if these crimes were being perpetrated by some secular organization? > A lot of people point > their fingers towards the Church, and rightly so. At the same time, > however, according to UNICEF, some 60 milion children are displaced > from their homes, sometimes alone: > > [ https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1098612 > ] > > So I understand we have a huge group of potential victims and we > should know (if we can read the news) that there is a sizable group of > rich abusers. The number one rule of capitalism says that clever > solicitors will pop up in this vacuum between two groups, so they can > meet each other. > > And the Church, no matter how many people dislike it, is not in this > game. So you are arguing that the Church is not so bad after all because they do not participate in child trafficking? Really? This is your argument? > Not enough money. I would imagine that you are saying that the church doesn't have enough money to participate, but that is not true. The Vatican is incredibly wealthy and Evangelical Christianity with their tithings in the US is not exactly penniless, etc. The other possibility is that you are saying that there is not enough money in child trafficking for the Church to consider the investment. I'm not sure what to make of this one, it's just bizarre. > But I do not hear an angry outcry about this much bigger abuse. Where I live (Germany), what I notice is that secular people are the ones usually fighting for refugee rights and volunteering to help them. I have met several of them through an atheist friend who spends his weekends teaching them graphic design and computer skills for free. What I also notice is that it is usually the religious right that is screaming against accepting refugees. Even the American religious right shrieks constantly about how Europe is being destroyed by accepting too many refugees. Berlin, the "atheist capital of Europe" is highly tolerant and pro-refugees, while the very Catholic Bavaria is not. I have to be fair and make a few exceptions here. Angela Merkel is a christian and she did the right thing. She also received incredible opposition on this from within her own Christian party. She is still demonized by the religious right for the crime of accepting "too many" refugees in Germany. The other exception is the current pope, who also said that it is the obligation of a christian to help refugees, and that Christ's message is unambiguous on this (I agree). He also received enormous opposition on this and is often labeled "a radical". > So far, on this planet, there was never a vaccum, never for too long. And > yes, I make this up in my mind. But I believe my model of humanity is > correct and this is what the model says. > >> Satanism? Like horrible tortures in the name of some sick god? Yeah that is >> also christianity. >> >> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=inquisition+torture&t=newext&atb=v274-1&iax=images&ia=images > > In case of Inquisition, I gave you the rule to determine if they were > doing their abuses for the faith or for themselves. Here is what > Jewish wikipedia says: > > start quote > > FINANCING THE INQUISITION > > [ http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/financing.html > ] > > It was widely accepted that the Inquisition existed only to rob > people, as they openly affirmed (Kamen, The Spanish Inquisition, p > 150). Both rich and poor knew that it was the rich who were most > at risk. The fact that the Inquisition funded itself from the > property it confiscated meant that it burned people on > commission. Individual inquisitors also funded themselves, > acquiring great wealth during their careers. Some inquisitors were > known to have fabricated evidence in order to extort money from > their victims, but even when discovered they received no > punishment. Similarly their staff of helpers, called familiars, > were free to commit crimes without fear of punishment by the > secular courts. After 1518 this was formalised. Familiars enjoyed > immunity from prosecution similar to benefit of clergy or modern > diplomatic immunity. This provided another cause of popular > scandal, along with their exemption from taxation . > > end quote > > So, seems to me, the Holy Inquisition was more like private > enterprise, and great career for those who accused. Yes, the inquisition was about money and power. So is the current Vatican, which seems to have little connection with the teaching of Christ (which mostly sound good to me, even though I suspect he didn't exist). What's your point? We might have a misunderstanding here. I have nothing against personal religion / personal mysticism. Reality is strange, there is a lot of suffering that comes with being a human being and we must all develop a personal way to make sense of things and find comfort and joy. I enjoy reading sacred texts and own a collection of them. My beef is with organized religion. Even Zen Buddhists collaborated with the nazis. Organized religion is and always has been bad news. And it is always about money and power. >> Or do you mean the "satanic panic", some disgusting confabulations >> trying to blame goth kids and D&D nerds for things for which there >> was zero evidence, while the true criminals are protected by the >> small town sheriff and their shitty little churches? Destroying >> lives, spending dozens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on >> frivolous lawsuits: >> >> https://moglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/LawContempSoc/ZellyRosaFirstEssay >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic > > I understand this "satanic panic" was a fabrication by people willing > to elevate themselves on social ladder, and to promote themselves in > local government administration. From prosecutor to judge. From judge > to governor. I never heard (but also never researched) about priest > being promoted because he caught some DnD players. > >> All of this amplified by Oprah Winfrey and other mainstream media >> grifters for profit: > > You mean Oprah works for a pope? Or does she simply collect as much > money as she can, because she likes the job and money? I mean that religion creates a fractal of grifters. >> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SatanicPanic >> https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-27-ca-449-story.html >> >> Kids spending decades in death row, being traumatized forever for >> the crime of dressing in black and liking metal in some shithole >> christian town? >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three >> >> And then being denied basic justice to this very day? >> >> https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/local/damien-echols-one-west-memphis-three-heads-court-today/NPSNZ3JTONFFVPKFV4WA5BSYEY/ >> >> Or the sick vengeful things christians do to young women who dared >> to protest you, in this very century in countries where there is no >> recourse to the law? >> >> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/freed-pussy-riot-amnesty-prison-putin-humiliation >> >> That is true satanism. > > Perhaps it is. I wonder if you still mean Catholic Church was somehow > involved in all this sensationalist scam, which happened in USA? That > sounds sensational in itself, given how little influence CC has in > that country. At least I think they have almost nothing to say, > because the land had been long ago grabbed by various religious > movements not belonging and not aligning themselves with CC. I admit, > like I wrote in one of previous mails, I have not too much idea about > religion in USA. Catholic domination there would have greatly > surprised me, however. No, that was mostly Evangelical Protestants. They are also peachy. >> I still remember the psychological abuse that I was subject to in my >> 6 years of forced Sunday school. It is not much compared to the >> things I mention above, but I remember that I was less than ten >> years old and I couldn't sleep at night because christian sickos put >> the ideas of heaven and hell (both terrifying) in my mind, trying to >> make me feel eternally guilty for being a perfectly normal and >> healthy human being. > > Too bad you have been abused. Perhaps one day you will discover that > you have more strength than you think, and wisdom to use it for > something good. Like, helping others. Or something. Each new day is a > day away from that bad time in the past. Nothing special happened to me. The sort of standard catholic education *is abuse*. It is abuse because it consists on the telling of lies and on the psychological manipulation of defenseless children for the purpose of power, money and social control. From oppressive families all the way to the state. The story of the conquest of basic human rights for women, for example, or for gay people, is a story of emancipation from organized religion. And it is in the most religious countries that such conquests are still to be made. I am not a victim and I haven't been for a long time. I have a personal religion. I understand spiritual beauty. I understand the difference between personal subjective experience and shareable truth. Failing to make this distinction is the root of all evil. Telmo > -- > Regards, > Tomasz Rola > > -- > ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** > ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** > ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** > ** ** > ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20220822081858.GC23611%40tau1.ceti.pl. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e3ee4a1e-c721-431e-a154-654e214f326b%40www.fastmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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