On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 10:10:46AM +0200, Telmo Menezes wrote: [...] > > Believe it or not I am also a lousy programmer and had formal > education as an engineer (even though I have a hard time seeing > myself as one) who has done some research with anthropologists:
Heh. > https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01429067/file/eScholarship%20UC%20item%205p57j1jm.pdf "The page does not exist"... Perhaps there is a copy somewhere else? > I always thought that scouts were the best part of Catholicism and I > almost joined at some point. Yeah. I guess if ever was into joining anybody, scouts would be it. [...] > Child abuse committed by Catholic priests is so incredibly common > that there must be something about being a Catholic priest that > either attracts people prone to these behaviors and/or triggers such > behaviors. I suspect that there are three things that play a huge > role: > > (1) The vow of celibacy > (2) The association of normal sexual desires with guilt from a young age > (3) The exclusion of women from priesthood > > All of these are catholic dogmas, and they produce a certain > outcome, and the Catholics refuse to face this. You seem to be right, but to be sure I would have to try reading about other faiths and what is their stance on above subjects - and if they too, display some kind of abnormal behaviours (as defined by the norms of their communities). Overally, sounds like interesting hobby project, for me at least. As various faiths give their followers some desired way to behave, what are side effects of it on follower's psyche. This would mean, do they have scandals, those communities of stranger followers? Yep. Sometimes I would like few more heads. [...] > >> How dare you? > > > > Uhumm. How dare I what exactly? How dare I to think? How dare I not be > > manipulated into emotional reaction? > > How dare you invoke "satanism", an invention and psychosis of > Christians that also did incredible harm to innocent people, to > deflect from the other crimes of Christianity? This is what I find > particularly distasteful. Maybe you didn't mean it like that. A lot > of people do. I know Catholicism very well from the inside (against > my will) and I am used to their silly rhetoric. They love to pretend > that they are ultimately a force for good, fighting these silly > shadowy threats (that they invented). The inquisition already did > this. As I sometimes hear news from Radio Vatican, to have a better understanding of what things look like from that place, I have indeed got a feeling they are doing something good from time to time. It is good to hear from many sources, if you ask me. As of the idea that Jesus Christ and Mr Satan are being promoted by the same people - no, somehow it never crossed my mind. And your rage, suggesting I should have known the two were so close related, was and still is a bit incomprehensible. [...] > > Because I am afraid you have been manipulated. > > I have been manipulated into thinking that there is something wrong > with an organization that has 1/4 million of child abuse cases to > its name just in Europe? And whose leaders did and do all they can > to hide it? Can you imagine how religious people would react if > these crimes were being perpetrated by some secular organization? Aha! I probably know. If you would like to educate yourself a bit about children abuse as done by "secular satanists", there is a bit of reading material. Intro: As husbands were being sent to gulags, so were their wifes. Their children aged 1.5-15 years were sent to orphanages and subject to gross negligence and social stigma. Some 10-50% of them died, if I am to believe some article. Older children were sent to gulags, where their chance of survival were slim, because gulag was exactly for extermination (I have read some anecdotic bynote that prisoners sent to cut the trees were seeing trees cut by earlier groups, rotting on the ground - nobody cared). Anyway, given the estimate of gulag inmates, I think one can have an estimate of children abused - using statistics, some modeling, another hobby, even if rather grim. Out of my head, if there were 18-20 million prisoners, then I would say it could be 1-2 million children, both in orphanages and in lagers. I do not have so much time to do a real computation but I really wonder what kind of number a computer will show me if I try to get it out. Materials, not all read yet: - "The Littlest Enemies: Children in the Shadow of the Gulag", a book by Deborah Hoffman The book is not read, but seems promising. OTOH, I have read other things on the subject and I feel half sick already every time I think about it. And I am not a newbie to this shit. - 'A lifetime sentence': children of the gulag fight to return from exile Millions of Soviet citizens were sent to vast network of prison camps under Stalin. Now their descendants seek recompense. [ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/23/children-of-the-gulag-soviet-stalin ] - "Russia's 'Children of the Gulag' battle to return home after exile" By Tom Balmforth, Evgenia Novozhenina MOSCOW/ZOLOTKOVSKY RAZEZD (Reuters) - Living in a wooden hut 300 km from Moscow, Elizaveta Mikhaylova feels trapped in the same forced exile imposed on her family during Josef Stalin’s Great Terror when her father was sent to the Gulag prison camps. [ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-gulag-idUSKBN29J1NX ] - "The Forgotten Victims: Childhood and the Soviet Gulag, 1929–1953" article by Elaine MacKinnon [ https://doi.org/10.5195/cbp.2012.186 ] - "The Collapse of the USSR and the Emergence of Mass Child Neglect" a masters thesis by Karsten Solheim [ https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/23790/HIS4090-Karsten-Solheim-DUO.pdf ] This one deals rather with post-soviet abuses of children, but as a form of introduction makes a summary of earlier practices. As such, author makes intriguing mentions of practices enabled by contemporary law during 1930s, which included judging 12-year olds and up as adult criminals, including death penalty. - "Growing up in the Gulag: later accounts of deportation to the USSR" by Marta Craveri & Anne-Marie Losonczy [ https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00952886/document ] A quote: Klara Hartmann was born in May 1930 in Miskolc in northern Hungary. Her parents were farmers who died young and she does not remember them. She was brought up by an uncle, a gendarmerie sergeant at Gönc. As the Red Army advanced in January 1945, her uncle and aunt led, leaving her alone. Aged 14, she was arrested, interrogated and tortured for almost a year in prison in Kiev, then sentenced to ten years’ hard labour for spying for the Germans. At Vorkuta, she worked on building sites. Bullied by the Soviet women imprisoned for criminal ofences, only reluctantly learning Russian, she was totally isolated, with no other Hungarian in the camp. More details about torturing "a spy" can be found here: https://museum.gulagmemories.eu/en/salle/childhood-gulag - Ok, I think I had enough. I posted all this mostly to support my claim. The abuses described above already are the thing of the past, both victims and perps are dead now. At the same time, it gives a glimpse of what is beyond the corner. [...] > So you are arguing that the Church is not so bad after all because > they do not participate in child trafficking? Really? This is your > argument? An abuser is an abuser. I think that quite a few abusers remain in shadow, because Church gets disproportional share of publicity. [...] > We might have a misunderstanding here. I have nothing against > personal religion / personal mysticism. Reality is strange, there is > a lot of suffering that comes with being a human being and we must > all develop a personal way to make sense of things and find comfort > and joy. I enjoy reading sacred texts and own a collection of > them. My beef is with organized religion. Even Zen Buddhists > collaborated with the nazis. Organized religion is and always has > been bad news. And it is always about money and power. I think that your approach to religion and mysticism is laudable and sympathetic. I also think that looking for an answer is more important than finding it, especially that those who claim to have found it are probably in error. Alas, I am afraid that personal religion has no standing chance against organised atheism. The one who, disguised as capitalism, goes on ruining the planet full clock. And maybe even will propose a solution to the problem of its own making, who knows. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20220826081723.GA3187%40tau1.ceti.pl.
