On 1/23/2024 2:12 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 4:37 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 1/23/2024 12:52 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 3:38 PM Brent Meeker
<[email protected]> wrote:
//
/> Who wrote this? you, JC?/
No, Scott Alexander did, he's a pretty smart guy but I think he
got some things wrong. I did write this in the comments section:
"You say "If we’re lucky, consciousness is a basic feature of
information processing and anything smart enough to outcompete us
will be at least as conscious as we are" and I agree with you
about that because there is evidence that it is true. I know for
a fact that random mutation and natural selection managed to
produce consciousness at least once (me) and probably many
billions of times, but Evolution can't directly detect
consciousness any better than I can, except in myself, and it
can't select for something it can't see, but evolution can detect
intelligent behavior. I could not function if I really believed
that solipsism was true, therefore I must take it as an axiom, as
a brute fact, that consciousness is the way data feels when it is
being processed intelligently.
/>You've written this before, but I slightly disagree with it. I
think Evolution can detect consciousness as directly or indirectly
as intelligence. /
I agree,Evolution can detect intelligence so it can only detect
consciousness if it is an inevitable byproduct of intelligent
data-processing.
You're missing my point that there are at least two different meanings
of "conscious" and only one necessarily accompanies intelligence (and
isn't exactly a "byproduct") It's just awareness or perception. It
doesn't include reflection and self-awareness, but in can include a lot
of intelligence, including learning.
The second meaning, which is the kind we prize as uniquely human, is
self-awareness. I think it's what you refer to as a "byproduct", but my
point is that it's another level of intelligence and hence is subject
evolution just like any other aspect of intelligence. This second
meaning is planning, and planning depends on having a self-model. If I
do this and that happens how will I feel and what will I do then.
Brent
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