On the subject of whether consciousness is computation (or is it "supervenes on computation" or something? Anyway...) - if it turns out that physics is computable, that undercuts that question, in that assuming consciousness is the product of physics, it must also be. the product of computation (possibly at a level far below that of frain cells)
On Tuesday 10 September 2024 at 06:14:22 UTC+12 Brent Meeker wrote: > > On 9/9/2024 5:25 AM, John Clark wrote: > > *No. Mathematics can describe computation, but it is not computation. > That’s why the semiconductor industry exists, software alone is not > sufficient, in fact, software alone can’t do anything. If you actually > want to DO something, if you want something to change over an interval of > time, then matter is required. That's why the information in a book can't > do anything if it's just sitting on a shelf, that information can only > cause something to change if a person or, as we've seen very recently, an > AI, reads it. And both the person and the AI are made of atoms. And atoms > are physical. * > > *Computation involves the manipulation of information, and the minimum > amount of energy needed to perform a calculation is greater than zero. > Also, the amount of information that you can stuff into a volume of space > is finite, if there is too much information then the volume turns into a > Black Hole where the information, if it still even exists, is > inaccessible. So information is physical and computation is a physical > process. * > > > > > > > *I generally agree with John, but I would point out that computation is a > physical process that realizes a mathematical process. Sure it's more > complicated because it depends on the physics, but that is incidental to > the computation. So it's kind of the reverse of using mathematics to > describe something. In a computational process it's the mathematics that's > essential. That, in itself doesn't answer the question of whether > consciousness is computation, but nerves are physiological structures whose > essential function is transmitting information. So I would say > consciousness originates with the evolution of nerves and eventually the > central nervous system. I see consciousness has having several levels from > simple detecting and reacting to immediate surroundings, to internal models > of self versus others, to planning and projection, to language and > abstraction. So conscious is implicitly information processing, but not > all of it is what humans think of as being conscious, having an inner > narrative. Brent* > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/972eac45-c1a3-4007-833e-04526691615dn%40googlegroups.com.
