On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 07:48:36PM -0700, Liz R wrote: > On Friday 13 September 2024 at 12:20:01 UTC+12 Russell Standish wrote: > > One of the consequences of the universal dovetailer argument is that > if conciousness is computational, then physics is not. > > > That's interesting. I don't see how that could happen, would you mind > elaborating? (I've read "The Amoeba's Secret" thanks to you but I can't > remember this part).
Physics, as in what is observed - phenomenology. The universal dovetailer will run all computations, so at each step where there is a difference of computation, all branches are taken. To a conscious entitity, the result will appear as an intrinsic random process - there is no meaningful statement to say which ameoba is the original one, they all are. The only get out I can think of is if the "foundational reality" (ontological layer) is sufficiently poor that it is incapable of running a universal dovetailer. But in that case, it would show up in observed physics, ie it would be impossible to imlement a universal dovetailer in our reality - or any sort of universal Turing machine or computer. I don't think this consequence is written in Amoeba's Secret, as it came out during discussions on this list which postdated Le secret de l'amibe. It might be in my book, but I don't recall now :). > > > > Intrinsic > randomness arises from the first person view of the operation of the > dovetailer. > > > I can see that, at least, I think it's similar to the idea of apparent > randomness in many-worlds? > Yes. > > Perhaps what you're thinking of is oracles solving computationally > impossible problems, such as delivering the successive digits of the > Chaitin probablility Ω. > > A corrolary of this is that a computational physics à la Konrad Zuse's > Rechnender Raum would rule out computationalism, and consequently > physical supervenience. > > > I can see how that follows from the first paragraph, but as mentioned I can't > think how computational consciousness leads to non-computational physics (or > exactly what that means). > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email > to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > everything-list/bb7aa002-e50c-4239-8cef-77f0e3feab8cn%40googlegroups.com. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders [email protected] http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20240913032315.GF2031%40zen.
