One of the consequences of the universal dovetailer argument is that if conciousness is computational, then physics is not. Intrinsic randomness arises from the first person view of the operation of the dovetailer.
Perhaps what you're thinking of is oracles solving computationally impossible problems, such as delivering the successive digits of the Chaitin probablility Ω. A corrolary of this is that a computational physics à la Konrad Zuse's Rechnender Raum would rule out computationalism, and consequently physical supervenience. Cheers On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 09:47:17AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 9:28 AM Liz R <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes I wondered about that, but it's possible that physics isn't > intrinsically random. > > > No, that isn't possible. Randomness is intrinsic, and not derivable from > anything else. > > > It could be based on something computable, and only appear random from our > perspective - presumbly some versions of many-worlds would fit the bill. > > > No, many-worlds is a decided failure as far as randomness is concerned. You > cannot get intrinsic randomness as exhibited by quantum phenomena from a > deterministic theory such as many-worlds. > > > Also, although various attempts to show hidden variables have fallen down, > it's always possible something of that sort might be involved that we > haven't thought of yet. > > > That is just a cheap let-out: "It could be something we haven't thought of > yet. > There are very good reason to think that intrinsic randomness cannot arise > from > a deterministic theory. You can get randomness from ignorance, as in classic > statistical mechanics, but that is not intrinsic -- things are still > deterministic if you have complete knowledge. Which is not the case in QM. > > Bruce > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email > to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > everything-list/ > CAFxXSLQ6r0rCsji2AaE1NMH3%2BkEfBSzseDUi%3DxkGC7VHbhXOQQ%40mail.gmail.com. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders [email protected] http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/20240913001947.GD2031%40zen.
