On Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 5:14:56 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 5:55 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *> I think I get it.* *I think you don't. * * > If you admit that Schrodinger was correct that superposition does NOT mean a system is in all states of its superposition state before measurement, then the Many-Worlds interpretation is also falsified.* *But if "**a system is in a superposition of states**" does NOT mean when"* *all states**" occur "**simultaneously**" then what the hell does it mean? Even Newton, even Aristotle, even Og the caveman, had no problem with an object being in 2 different places AT 2 DIFFERENT TIMES, what made Quantum Mechanics so revolutionary is that it seem to say that one thing could be at two different places AT THE SAME TIME.* *Firstly, where in the postulates of QM is the latter affirmed? No one can answer that question! ISTM, when we use a superposition, we get good results about probabilities. So, it's as if we stumbled across a useful mathematical formulation, but I wouldn't go beyond that to affirm unintelligible absurdities which are beyond the pale. AG * *When Schrodinger came up with his cat thought experiment he did it to prove that Quantum Mechanics must be wrong, or at least incomplete. But he forgot that when you're making a Reductio Ad Absurdum proof it's important that the results be logically paradoxical and not just very strange. What he really proved is that Quantum Mechanics is weird. * *I strongly disagree. He proved that the interpretation of superposition is false, not that QM is wrong. AG * *> But you're not alone in denying reality.* *Yes, besides me Hugh Everett and Sean Carroll and Max Tegmark and a majority, or at least a very significant minority, of quantum physicists believe that realism is probably untrue. * *Realism might be untrue, but that doesn't mean superposition implies unintelligible interpretations. For example, in the Stern-Gerlach experiment, the systems being measured have no preexisting spins. And the primary axis can be oriented in many different directions to get spins in different directions, yet the same superposition applies IIUC. AG * * It looks like you believe in realism, therefore unless you abandon the scientific method you must conclude that locality or determinism or both are untrue. * *Did Schrodinger abandon the scientific method in his thought experiment? AG* * > **Pretty sad when you think about it* *That sounds like something Donald Trump would say, and in fact he does, very often. * *Obviously a false equivalence. AG* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/dd3234b2-adf8-47c7-af6a-013fed51642en%40googlegroups.com.
