On 11/25/2024 6:20 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 11:01 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
*
*
*>> the only way the universe could be deterministic, local
and realistic is with Superdeterminism, but that theory is
idiotic because it requires you to make quite literally
an_INFINITE_ number of assumptions.*
/> It only requires that there be *some* initial condition and
deterministic evolution thereafter. Sounds just like Newtonian
cosmology./
*Every problem, not just in physics but in science in general,requires
that there be SOME initial condition, but good theories will give you
the right answer starting with lots of different initial conditions,*
Not if they are deterministic. In that case there's one-to-one mapping
from initial condition to observed condition. And as you have noted
every predictive theory require SOME initial condition. So
Superdeterminism is as economical as possible.
*Great theories will give you the right answer starting
withANY initial condition, *
You must not have applied many differential equations.*
*
*and ridiculously bad theories, like superdeterminism, will only work
if the universe started out in _ONE_ very particular configuration.*
Which as you said, it must have done.*
*
*That sounds NOTHING like Newtonian cosmology! *
*Every problem in Newtonian physics starts with some initial
condition, but Newton can tell you how fast a ball will be after it
rolls down an incline plank no matter how high it is at the top, what
the angle of the plank is, or how fast the ball is already rolling at
before it started going down the ramp. Superdeterminism would be like
a rival theory that could correctly predict how fast the ball will be
going at the bottom _BUT_ only if the ball started out at 3.109 MPH,
and the ramp was exactly 5.096 feet high, and it was set at an angle
of 28.062 degrees, if the initial conditions were anything other than
that it would make an incorrect prediction. *
But ex hypothesi the initial conditions *were that *and therefore the
prediction is correct.
*
*
**
*>> It's not even a scientific theory because if it's true
then the scientific method itself would be of no help
whatsoever in increasing your ontologicalor even
epistemological knowledge. *
/> There would still be deterministic law-like evolution. /
*Maybe, maybe not, if superdeterminism is true there would be no way
to ever knowbecause the scientific method wouldn't work. The initial
conditions of the universe could've been set up so that in 4004 BC
non-biological purely geological processes created dinosaur bones, and
living breathing dinosaurs never existed. And monkey and even human
fossils could be common in Cambrian rock layers, but they have never
been found and never will be found because the initial conditions of
the universe were such that no paleontologist will ever decide to dig
in the particular spots where those fossils are. *
*And the initial conditions of the universe could haveconspired to
make us believe there were such a thing as "particle entanglement"
because the angle 2 distant experimenters always choose to set their
polarizer or Stern-Gerlach magnet at is _NEVER_ random, they always
picked angles that gave them a consistent but totally incorrect view
of reality. *
*
*
*Christian fundamentalist say God is lying to me, Superdeterminism
fans say nature is lying to me. *
Not at all. The simplest hypothesis is that Superdeterminism has
determined what the laws of physic are and that they be obeyed in every
instance. Which it the thing you already believe. What you don't
believe is that your choices of what to do, specially what to measure,
are determined because you really, really like free will...even though
you don't believe in it.
Brent
*But I see no reason that my default assumption should be that
somebody or something is lying to me. *
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
*
*
7bw
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