On 11/27/2024 4:57 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 7:06 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
* >> It may require more calculating power than you have
available**but Newtonian physics can give you an answer for an
infinite number of initial conditions, and if things are not
too fast or too small and gravity is not too strong the answer
will even be correct; but superdeterminism can only give you
an answer if things started out in one very specific starting
condition. *
/
> Who told you that? It's not t'Hooft's theory. He just says
suppose there is no free will and no randomness, all evolution is
deterministic. /
*Bullshit. *
You think that is *not* t'Hooft's theory? Or superdetermism can only
produce one outcome if things start is specific condition?
*First of all free will is not false, it's gibberish. And _ANY_
deterministic theory, not just Superdeterminism, would say there is
"/no randomness, all evolution is deterministic"/; for example Many
Worlds says exactly the same thing because it is also a deterministic
theory. *
But it assumes that the measurements by Alice and Bob in a Bell
experiment can be uncorrelated; while superdeterminism says their angle
selections have a common source and are correlated. It is not just the
evolution of the experiment that is determined but also the action of
the participants and decisions about what to measure. That's why it's
*super*determinism.*
*
*What makes Superdeterminism unique, and uniquely stupid, has nothing
to do with determinism, it has to do with the unique starting
condition required to make the stupid contraptionwork.*
*>> All the other rival quantum interpretationswill work
regardless of which particular initial condition the universe
started out at, they have no need of specifying one particular
one; by contrast what superdeterminism says is let's assume the
universe did NOT start out in that state, or that state, or that
state, or that state and it must continue making those assumptions
an_infinite_ number of times before it finally gets to one and at
last says yeah it started out in that one.*
/> A simple consequence of deterministic evolution, which is time
reversible./
*Brent, I assume you don't believe in the "Dinosaurs Never Existed"
theory, but why not? If things are deterministic then out of the
infinite number of initial conditions the very early universe could've
started out in, there is one in which nonbiological purely geological
forces would produce rocks that sentient creatures on a small planet
around an average looking star would misinterpreted as being bones
from huge reptiles that existed many millions of years ago. If
Superdeterminism is a good theory then "Dinosaurs Never Existed" is an
equally good theory. *
*>> The laws of physics are not the problem,and determinism is
not the problem. The problem is the initial conditions, out of
the infinite number of initial conditions the universe
could've started out in only one of them will guarantee that
experimenters everywhere will always make the wrong choice
when performing their quantum experiments, even when they use
dice or quantum "randomness" on how to set their polarizers or
Stern Gerlach magnet**s because nothing is really random. *
>///In what sense is the choice wrong if it is determined by laws//?**/
*It's wrong because the sequence of orientations generations of
experimentalists "chose" to set their polarizers and Stern Gerlach
magnets at were _ALWAYS _the one and only one *
It doesn't imply that Alice and Bob must chose some particular settings,
only that their choices OR the spin axes be correlated.
Brent
*that will cause generations of theoreticians to form incorrect
quantum interpretations, such as Copenhagen, Many Worlds, Objective
Collapse, Pilot Wave and many more. *
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
goe
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