On 11/26/2024 6:08 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 10:58 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
> /as you have noted every predictive theory require SOME initial
condition. /
*There is a vast difference between being able to predictthe outcome
of ANY initial conditionand only being able to predict the outcome of
ONE initial condition! *
Given determinism there is only one outcome for ANY ONE initial condition.
*It may require more calculating power than you have available**but
Newtonian physics can give you an answer for an infinite number of
initial conditions, and if things are not too fast or too small and
gravity is not too strong the answer will even be correct; but
superdeterminism can only give you an answer if things started out in
one very specific starting condition. *
Who told you that? It's not t'Hooft's theory. He just says suppose
there is no free will and no randomness, all evolution is deterministic.
Then whatever state we find ourselves it is the one and only state that
follows from the initial state.
*It wouldn't even make sense to ask what Superdeterminism would
predict if the universe started out in some other initial condition;
and if that fact doesn't scream "bad theory" I don't know what does. *
I agree with that last, you don't know what does.
**
*
*
*>> ridiculously bad theories, like superdeterminism, will
only work if the universe started out in _ONE_ very particular
configuration.*
/> Which as you said, it must have done./
*All the other rival quantum interpretationswill work regardless of
which particular initial condition the universe started out at, they
have no need of specifying one particular one; by contrast what
superdeterminism says is let's assume the universe did NOT start out
in that state, or that state, or that state, or that state and it must
continue making those assumptions an_infinite_ number of times before
it finally gets to one and at last says yeah it started out in that one. *
A simple consequence of deterministic evolution, which is time reversible.
*A greater violation of Occam's razor is impossible to imagine. *
*> Christian fundamentalist say God is lying to me,
Superdeterminism fans say nature is lying to me.*
*
*
/> Not at all. The simplest hypothesis is that Superdeterminism
has determined what the laws of physicare and that they be
obeyedin every instance. /
*The laws of physics are not the problem,and determinism is not the
problem. The problem is the initial conditions, out of the infinite
number of initial conditions the universe could've started out in only
one of them will guarantee that experimenters everywhere will always
make the wrong choice when performing their quantum experiments, even
when they use dice or quantum "randomness" on how to set their
polarizers or Stern Gerlach magnet**s because nothing is really random. *
In what sense is the choice wrong if it is determined by laws?**It's
certainly possible that deterministic processes can appear random, c.f.
psuedo-random number generators.*
*Brent*
*
*There is a grand conspiracy to mislead us; just like God misled us
when he made dinosaur bones in 4004 BC but made them look like they
were hundreds of millions of years old.*
**
/> What you don't believe is that your choices of what to do,
specially what to measure, are determined because you really,
really like free will...even though you don't believe in it./
*I don't believe that free will is true and I don't believe that free
will is untrue either. I believe that free will is gibberish. It's so
bad it's not even wrong. *
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
feg
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