Dude, STFU. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:51 AM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > First, you have no credibility on the point. You find the > phrase "I finish > them (fights)" offensive but not someone being called a > "liar", "stupid", > "idiot", "wife beater". You simply have zaro credibility. > > Second, as for your other two points, our customers and potential > customers are made well aware of any and all potential conflicts of > interest. We practice full disclosure. In addition, meeting > with a vendor > to talk about their new products is in no way even CLOSE to > accepting a > title or gift from said vendor. But, there is no point to > even debating > this with you because you are never going to see it because > you are going > to deny the obvious. Yes, I have to deal with vendors just > like everyone > else in this industry. It is a fact of life. But, I don't > have to like it > and no, generally, I almost NEVER meet with vendors and when > I do, it is > for specific purposes, I get in, get the information and get out. > > Finally, you have obviously shown your bias by claiming that > I claim to be > the "all ethical" sort. And to my knowledge, I have no > "ethics test" that > I have created. This is a blatant mis-characterization and > exposes your > bias. I am not, nor ever will be "all ethical" and "holier > than thou". I > have *different* ethics apparently than many on this board, but I have > never claimed to be perfect or that my ethics are the end all, be all. > Yes, I have paid to attend conventions, I have paid to be a Microsoft > "partner". In some strict ethical vaccuum those may be considered > unethical, but this is the real world. And besides that, > there is a clear, > bright line between paying a vendor to attend a convention > and accepting a > pure gift from a vendor. That bright line is what I have been talking > about, but you are never going to see it because you will > never admit to > the obvious and just want to pick a fight. > > And yes, for all of you out there, I am nearly certain that, > in my youth, > I accepted direct gifts from vendors. I cannot recall any particular > occassion, but I'm willing to bet that it probably occurred. And guess > what? I stopped that long, long, long ago because IT IS WRONG. > > So, to sum it up, you have no credibility that you have been > "offended" in > any way because there have been lots more offensive stuff > said that you > have not said boo about. And, you are in self-denial about > the DISTINCT > difference between accepting a pure gift from a vendor and PAYING that > vendor to attend a convention, etc. Here's a hint. One costs > you money, > the other doesn't. > > > I am not "quibbling" with what you said, I'm instead taking > offense at > > what you said. You see, you can't claim to be the "all > ethical" sort > > you want, if you can't even pass the ethics test of your > own making. I > > didn't post any of those points on your website, someone from YOUR > > company did, and you are the one claiming to hold them near > and dear. > > > > How interesting that you choose to respond ONLY to one > point, and then > > make irrelevant statements about people calling you names. > > > > Since I didn't call you names sir, perhaps you should go back and > > re-read the whole message. It's not that I consider you a > liar, or that > > you are stupid. I now consider you incapable of having any type of > > intelligent discussion based on the fact that you choose to ignore > > 2/3rds of what was posted, or should I just assume that you > chose not to > > discuss those points because you couldn't keep your "I have > my Ethics" > > argument and all this would be moot? > > > > Speaking of MOOT, can anyone tell me what top 10 classic rock single > > contains the word "MOOT"? > > > > > > > > Bob Sadler > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:50 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > > > So you are going to quibble with things that "I" said? You > people are so > > whacked out that it is utterly incomprehensible. So where > were you when > > I was called a "liar" or a "wife beater" or "stupid" or > "idiot" or that > > I "starve children". All of that is OK in your whacky > bizarro world, but > > explaining to someone that if you start a fight (in email > for Christ's > > sake) that I will finish that fight. Oh that is TERRIBLE! > How could you > > SAY such a thing. Never mind the "liar", "stupid", "idiot" > stuff, THAT, > > sir, is uncalled for. > > > > Bob, you amaze me. > > > > > You know, I'm just as happy to NOT read this dribble, but > when someone > > > > > points out so wonderfully how ethical they are, and we > can all go to=20 > > > www.infonition.com/ethics.shtml to prove it, then someone > like me just > > > > > might go there and read, and low and behold what is it we find? > > >=20 > > > Well, this character Greg, wants us all to believe his > "ethics" are=20 > > > without question. So, let's take a look at his ethics > page and see=20 > > > what he's supposed to be doing. > > >=20 > > > First, Greg's point of vendor conflict is answered here: > > >=20 > > > To never accept compensation from vendors for recommending = > > products=3D20 > > >=20 > > > One must ask then Greg, have you ever been to a seminar, > conference,=20 > > > or LUNCH where the vendor presenting paid for the meal, > the snacks,=20 > > > the coffee? > > >=20 > > > Second, Greg's list of ethics claim: > > >=20 > > > To disclose any and all influences that may affect our=20 > > > recommendations=3D20 > > >=20 > > > Greg, does this mean that if I were to speak to you over > the phone,=20 > > > you would tell me just how many times your Cisco, > Microsoft, Bay=20 > > > Networks, etc., Rep. has called? Or are you saying that > you never=20 > > > meet with the vendors to discuss how their products can > benefit your=20 > > > customers? Do you ever read trade magazines that discuss > the use of=20 > > > one vendors products over another? Will you then tell me > all the=20 > > > magazines you read, what date, publication, page number, etc? > > >=20 > > > Third, Greg's list goes on to say: > > >=20 > > > To be fair and accurate when resolving disputes, problems > or issues=20 > > > [and] To conduct ourselves in a professional manner at > all times=3D20 > > >=20 > > > One must ask then Greg, exactly how does your statement > of: "Wrong.=20 > > > You brought it up by throwing stones my way. I don't pick > fights, I=20 > > > finish them." work into these statements? > > >=20 > > > This is just what I don't need in a vendor. Someone who > believes he's > > > > > always right, and if he is going to have a fight with his > customers,=20 > > > HE'S going to finish it. I can see now why people flock > to your=20 > > > organization Greg. > > >=20 > > > The point is, don't say something matters a great deal to > you, and=20 > > > then give this list plenty of examples showing that > apparently it=20 > > > doesn't. You want to wave a flag around and say "I have > ethics" and=20 > > > yet not live by those same ethics, then be prepared to be > inundated=20 > > > with the onslaught. > > >=20 > > > I would trust Ed, Tom, Tony, and even Don, further then I > would trust=20 > > > someone yelling about how ethical they are and at the > same time say=20 > > > they'll finish any fight. > > >=20 > > > It's time to throttle back now greg, and realize this. > You are a=20 > > > Sales Manager for a company that apparently you are > supposed to be=20 > > > drumming up business for. Just how much business do you > think you=20 > > > have generated on this list after acting in the manner you did? > > >=20 > > > Bob Sadler > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Web Interface: > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=3Dexchange&text_mode=3D= > & > lang=3Denglish > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
