I have many friends in NASCAR, one that was a chassis engineer at Penske. Most, maybe 99% of the wind tunnel testing is with scale models. Only when they think they have it perfect, according to their data from CFD and modeling, do they put a full scale vehicle in there. Actually, the wind tunnel is used more to prove or disprove ideas, less to develop new ones.. There's lots of ways to test aero in real life other than a wind tunnel. I have another Engineer friend at NASCAR, they actually did work for NHRA, he put top fuel dragster nose and bolted them to a sliding bracket on the front of a pickup, and ran 100 mph. Ever here of Burt Ratan? His aircraft is designed without wind tunnels, he won that X prize for putting a privately funded craft into space. CR
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chris, Sure CFD is used heavily, I'm just pulling your leg a little. The point is that CFD is a just another tool or design aid. It has its limitations. Berkley Spice models analog electical circuits really well-been around for 20 years. I used to use it when all we had were main frame computers for it to run upon. However, bench time is STILL necessary today to get most stuff to work as intended. Our thermal engineers use a very high priced CFD package at the place I work for heat flow modeling in our spacecraft designs. They start with a Pro-E or Solidworks 3D mechanical drawing just like with a race car. It is a big help but it only gets one so close to reality. No modeling tool minimics nature perfectly. Ferarri and Boeing also use CFD applications that you and I will never be able to afford. In fact, we would probably not even be able to afford 1 year's factory support of the software for bug fixing and help with cockpit errors in using it. Racers still do amazing things without software tools. There is a classis picture of Frank Costin in his suit, tie, and black shoes where he is strapped flat to the front fender of a car so he can observe the behavior of wool tufts at speed up close :-> Chuck >From: Chris Reinhardt >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [F500] new body for KBS and Q-cars >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:04:27 -0800 (PST) > > Chuck, I know that they can and do design entire aircraft without using >wind tunnels, I'm sure that with the software out now, they can design and >test race car bodies. > > CR > >Dave Craddock wrote: > Chuck ,you obviously know Ted James,he and Nancy are most acomplished >racers,I'm curious how he measured the results he got? >Dave Craddock >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chuck Voboril" >To: >Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:51 PM >Subject: Re: [F500] new body for KBS and Q-cars > > > > Chris, > > CFD is still in its infancy. Honest. > > CFD only gives you clues about portions of a car shape. > > > > One has to go back and forth between track measurements and CFD CAD > > modeling to get it fairly right. > > and if you have the resources, between wind tunnel tests, too. > > Wind tunnel work will still probably get a company to an optimum design > > far before someone w/out one whoonly has CFD. > > New wind tunnels are still being built. > > > > As an example-Ted James, who bought the latest Stohr WF-1, has >discovered > > it makes less measured DF than his old AMAC that he had tweaked and > > tweaked upon for years. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: Chris Reinhardt > >>Reply-To: [email protected] > >>To: [email protected] > >>Subject: Re: [F500] new body for KBS and Q-cars > >>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:32:56 -0800 (PST) > >> > >> Chuck, if you have some really good fluid dynamics software, there's no > >> need for a wind tunnel, Lee does... > >> > >> CR > >> > >>Chuck Voboril wrote: > >> I might add that the dominant Stohr DSR's have never seen the inside of > >> a > >>wind tunnel either. > >>This F500 design passes the aero "eyeball" test as well as any. > >> > >> > >>Chuck Voboril > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >>Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > >>Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a PS3 game guru. >Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! >Games. --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ FormulaCar Magazine - A Proud Supporter of Formula 500 The Official Publication of Junior Formula Car Racing Subscribe Today! www.formulacarmag.com or 519-624-2003 _________________________________ _______________________________________________ F500 mailing list - [email protected] To unsubscribe or change options please visit: http://f500.org/mailman/listinfo/f500 *** Please, DO NOT send unsubscribe requests to the mailing list! ***
