--- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Much of these metal gymnastics regarding enlightenment > and suffering come about because of a foundational > misconception regarding enlightenment that necessarily > must come about when understood within the constructs > of waking state. The "reason" why there is no > suffering in enlightenment is that there is no > individuality there to suffer. Pain occurs, but there > is nobody home to suffer. Usually this is followed up > with, so an enlightened person feels no pain? The > question is based on an individuality being > enlightened. This is incorrect. There is no > enlightenment for the ego. "You" don't get > enlightened. > -Peter >
Pain is an experience that comes with identification as the body. Sensation has to do with the senses which are functions of nature. There are senses but they are not you, they are like distinct operating systems that the individual awareness uses as the interface between manifest and unmanifest. Any person feels pain to the degree that they "believe" they are the body. The question is, just what "level" of awareness is considered to be enlightened? Is it a state where no personal self is experienced, is it a state where the self is always seen as separate from activity? Is it a state where all experiences "as" a body cease to exist? Is -Peter enlightened? Is MMY enlightened? Is Guru Dev enlightened? Is everyone enlightened to some degree or is there a boundary that one must cross to first have total enlightenment, or any degree of enlightenment? So many questions that haven't yet been answered. Rick Carlstrom > --- Patrick Gillam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Comments interleaved below. > > > > Bob Brigante wrote: > > > > > > the experience of disease or any other traumatic > > event > > > is completely different for the enlightened person > > (an actually > > > enlightened person, one hastens to add, not a > > Fairfield Life list > > > enlightened person) than for the ignorant person. > > ... > > > the effect [of trauma to the body] would be > > meaningless > > > on an enlightened person. > > > > Bob, you distinguish between a Fairfield Life > > enlightened person and an "actually" > > enlightened person, but at least one Fairfield Life > > enlightened person is describing his > > experiences in just the terms you describe above -- > > that trauma doesn't affect him. > > See Tom Traynor's descriptions of dealing with > > physical pain. > > > > > A world full of > > > enlightened people would certainly not see the > > horrible toll of > > > epidemics like smallpox, which took ~300 million > > lives just in the > > > 20th century -- the tendency would be toward > > perfect health, > > > reflecting the harmonious way of life of the > > enlightened: > > > > I don't see how a tendency toward perfect health > > necessarily follows from enlightened > > people being unaffected by trauma or disease. On one > > hand, you're saying (and I > > agree) that bodily hurts can't touch enlightened > > people because they are not their > > bodies. Then you say the bodily hurts won't happen > > in the first place. Am I > > misreading you to assume a cause-and-effect > > relationship in your writing? > > > > - Patrick Gillam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
