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In the case of return to
individuality, the person must not have had the true experience of emptiness
because whether you pull the eye far away from the cloth, or bring the eye up
close either way you see the light through it.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:55 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re:
Individuality: Outward Projection vs. Inner Subjective Sense of No Indiv.
Do
--Actually it is my understanding that as her brain ca
advanced she
began to experience a "regression" back into ignorance ie
ordinary
waking state conciousness which included her again experiencing
a
sense of personal self.The latter development is certainly
suggestive
that enlightment is dependent on a certain type of brain
function
which is inturn vunerable to being loss due to disease or
injury.
Kevin
n [email protected], Peter
Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- anonymousff
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>
>
> > I'd also like to ammend my earlier comment about
>
> experience always
> > coming packaged with the knowledge
necessary to
> > understand the
> > experience. Here's a
counterexample that I thought
> > of: that TM
> > teacher
who wrote a book about her "enlightenment"
> > and then died of
> > a brain tumor. She had no understanding for a decade
>
> or more. So the
> > knowledge isn't always there.
Hmm...
>
> She was having a CC experience which is the
first
> awakening out of bondage. CC is the cessation of
>
consciousness identifying with any relative
> experience. The mind is
still filled with mental
> habits and these are "burned-out" as that
nothingness
> ripens. There is no "unboundedness in CC. Just
>
nothingness. It is very, very hard on the mind because
> it keeps
looking for something called "self" and finds
> pure emptiness instead.
This mental habit must be
> broken. She did not gain the
intellectual
> understanding of this through MMY or the TMO (which
is
> too bad because in my experience it is right there!)
> and
was therefore confused for quite some time until
> that nothingness ate
the gap and she was in UC. Then
> she died ;-) hehehe. A kali yuga curve
ball.
> -Peter (eater of the gap)
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In [email protected],
akasha_108
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
>
> > --- In [email protected], anonymousff
> >
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > > In my
experience, it is fun to contemplate such
> > issues. And
>
> thank
> > > > you to each and every one of you who
contributed
> > to this thread.
> > > >
> >
> > But, having noticed that even deep immersement
> > in these
ideas
> > over a
> > > > period of years has not
resulted in a gestalt
> > awakening to what
> > is
>
> > > really happening here, I go about my business as
> >
usual. Such
> > > > metaphysical questions appear to get burnt
up in
> > the searing
> > heat of
> > > >
life lived in the present.
> > > >
> > > > I
have heard that some do awaken to the true
> > nature of things as
> > a
> > > > result of this kind of self-inquiry,
and so, do
> > not condemn it
> > > > outright. But I
wonder sometimes at its utility.
> > In under an
> > hour,
I
> > > > am sure that someone familiar with the
various
> > conceptual
> > nuances
> > > >
and schools of thought on the topics of I, ego,
> > doer,
>
> individuality,
> > > > self etc., could lay them all out
so that anyone
> > of reasonably
> > > > developed
intellect could grasp the ideas and
> > check on how well
>
> they
> > > > relate to their own experience. After that,
what
> > is the point,
> > > > unless it is to check
in once every few years to
> > see if one's
> > > >
perspective has changed due to the clearing of
> > fog or the
> > shifting
> > > > of mirrors?
> > >
> > > (Sorry Akasha for this linear thinking,
> >
non-gestalt
> > > > conclusion - I don't fully mean it...am
just
> > stating how I feel
> > at
> > > >
the moment.)
> > >
> > >
> > > For the
most part, the intellect thinks in a
> > sequential, linear
>
> > fashion. I am not advocating anyone to try to
> > abondon
that at all -
> > - I
> > > don't think thats possible.
What does occur at
> > times though, is
> > that
>
> > after examining various parts of a puzzle, in a
> >
systematic, linear
> > > fashion, the various parts can "flash" --
fuse in
> > new ways,
> > providing
> > > new
insight.
> > >
> > > Sometimes the linear analysis
and (sometimes)
> > subsequent "flash"
> > are
> >
> based on symbolic processing -- that is, its a
> > logical
refinement
> > and
> > > manipulation of concepts /
abstractions -- sort of
> > like solving an
> > >
algebraic equations where the variables are
> > concepts.
Concepts
> > and
> > > abstractions are the "content"
of the processing.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, a
different type of linear
> > processing can occur,
> > >
also resulting in a, often later, gestalt-typr
> > flash. However,
now
> > the
> > > elements being processed, the content,
the data
> > being crunched, is
> > > experiential. Or,
sometimes a mixture of
> > conceptual elelments and
> > >
experiential elements. The post linear analysis
> > phase,
>
> the "flash" --
> > > fuses concepts and/or experience in
new
> > relationships and can
> > result
> > >
in a new experiential foundation.
> > >
> > > The
best analogy I can think of to explain the
> > fusion of
conceptual
> > > and experiential elements -- each
originally
> > approached in very
> > linear
> >
> systematic fashion, and it is only an analogy, is
> > in
learning a new
> > > skill or sport. For example, for those that
play
> > tennis, a top-spin
> > > serve becomes a
valuable tool -- particularly as a
> > second serve. It
> >
> almost always goes in, even when hit full force,
> > and can be
made to
> > > bounce so high to an opponent's weaker side
that
> > it is hard to
> > return
> > > -- and
further, can get the opponent out of
> > position.
> > >
> > > When I was a kid and a teacher explained the
> >
top-spin serve to me,
> > I
> > > didnt get it. I got
the concept, I got the
> > mechanics. But I could
> >
not
> > > "do it", I couldn't make it an experience.
Later,
> > some time later,
> > > fooling around, I found
I could make my serves
> > really "kick" by
> >
doing
> > > this "thing" that I could not explain, but
could
> > do. Some time
> > later,
> > > the
concept and the experience fused in a flash,
> > and I tealized
> > what
> > > I was doing was a self-learned top-spin
serve. I
> > then reused the
> > > conceptual
understanding of top-spin to refine and
> > clarify the
> >
> mechanics of the "experience" and the feel of
> > doing it.
Soon, it
> > was
> > > just locked in.
> >
>
> > > The point is, you don't attempt to think
> >
gestaltly, nonlinearly. I
> > > don't know how to do that -- other
than to set up
> > the conditions
> > that
> >
> let that happen. And that is to sharply look at
> > different
parts of
> > an
> > > issue or problem in a linear
systematic fashion.
> > And then, in a
> > sense,
>
> > let go. And in time, sometimes, or often, a more
> >
holistic,
> > > multi-component (symbols and /or
experiential
> > elements) creat a
> > > "flash" of
insight, almost as if the fusion of the
> > elements creates
>
> > energy and light.
> > >
> > > The broader
point is that I have found that
> > periodically
> > >
systematically and intensely examining the
> > components
>
=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
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