--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <lengli...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > E.G. Malnak vs Yogi was Malnak vs Yogi, not AUFSOCAS vs Yogi. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that > > > > > 1) the puja is done outside school > > > > > 2) TM is optional even during the quiet time > > > > > 3) that no TM teacher is directly involved int eh school program > > > > > 4) that no theory is taught during the school program > > > > > 5) that the program is NOT funded by the school > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all seem to make it different than the Malnak vs Yogi case. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, that appears to be similar to the fundamentalist nutbag > > > > Christianists who are attempting to sneak their anti-evolution > > > > creationist religion into the public school system in the guise of > > > > intelligent design. > > > > > > Well, that assumes that intelligent design and TM theory (as presented in > > > terms of > > > a relaxation program) are on a similar level. > > > > > > It doesn't matter, Lawson. What they have in common is that they are both > > dishonest attempts to sneak religious-based ideology or practice into the > > public school system. > > > > > You're assuming that TM, by its own existence, is a religious practice that> > is impossible to divorce from the cultural antecedents that MMY brought with > it. > > Speaking as a Unitarian-Universalist who is quite willing to say "itakimasu" > with> his japanese friends before a meal, even though that literally means > "thanks> to all that have brought us this meal [from the Lord God, to the > spirits of the> land to the farmers who grew the food]" without insisting > that it is a religious> ceremony, I think that you are wrong here.
You can think what you like Lawson. Taking the standard fraudulent TMO party line comes easily to one who's steeped in it. > > > I don't think that that is the case. > > > > > > There's no way to justify intellligent design as being "scientific" but > > > its certainly > > > plausible to justify "quiet time" as being worthy. The question is: is TM > > > a more worthy quiet time than something else, and the answer is: > > > what does it matter? > > > > > > This so-called "quiet time" is just a disguise, Lawson, for the TMO to > > incorporate TM into the public school system. You're not fooling anyone. > > > > Yes, but it allows for ANY quiet time to be incorporated during that same > period,> not just the DLF's. If you offer a "quiet time" you can not mention TM at all without the obvious implication that it's being promoted. > > > FOr the participants, TM quiet time costs no more than > > > any other quiet time. The entire thing is funded by the DLF and any > > > school> participation is only to the level that they would have for > > > sponsoring any other> quiet time in that same school. > > > > > > > > Both approaches are hokey, transparent and blatantly dishonest. > > > > > > > To you. THe TM organization touts TM as being a better quiet time than> > > > others, while admitting that other quiet times may be of value as well. > > > The ID people may tout ID as an "alternative theory" but don't give > > > any case of the argument against partaking in that theory int he first > > > place. > > > > > > > The only way you can make the situations analogous is to show where TM> > > > is WORSE for kids than simply sitting and reading a book. > > > > > > > > Nope. What they have in common is that they are both dishonest attempts to > > sneak religious-based ideology or practice into the public school system. > > > > See above. TM is only religious because people insist that it is. That's because anyone with half a brain can plainly see, after looking behind the fraudulent TMO schlock and snake oil dance, that TM is indeed inextricably tied into the Hindu religion. > In the context of a stress-management program for kids, its no more religious > than saying "thanks everyone" at the start of a meal. Probably less. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention that they haven't been able to get a Malnak > > > > > to bring suit yet, presumeably because the participation requires> > > > > > > > parental approval in the first place, unlike in the New Jersey > > > > > situation> and in the case of the california school, the DLF stepped > > > > > aside rather> than let someone take them to court because they > > > > > objected.> > > > They've learned, in other words. > > > > > > > > The bottom line however is that, as the executive director, Barry Lynn > > > > of the Americans United for Separation of Church and State said: > > > > > > "TM has always been rooted in the religion of Hinduism... There are no > > > > imminent cases right now, but people, including conservative > > > > Christian parents will say if Christianity can't be taught in the > > > > public schools then Hinduism can't be either." > > > > > > > There are no imediate cases because no Malnak has stepped forward to > > > be a spokesperson for "Americans United for Separation of Church and > > > State". > > > > > > While I don't see why the Americans United can't initiate the lawsuit on > > their own, I don't doubt that there WILL be a 'Malnak' if this issue > > reaches a sufficient level of public awareness and the TMO doesn't simply > > sneak by and get away with their typical hokey snow job. > > > > Except at the first sign of a Malnak, they withdraw completely. > > > > > > > > > This issue deserves to be fully addressed legally and brought to a > > > > conclusive decision. > > > > > > > > > Sure, but will they be able to in the context of how it is being > > > presented?> With no legal standing, no lawsuit can be brought. > > > > > > The you-can't-miss-it-elephant-in-the-room legal standing is that MMY's > > Transcendental Meditation itself is without question deeply and elaborately > > religious-based - and because of that it should not be incorporated into > > the US public education system. > > > Sez you: thanks everyone. Anyone with half a brain can plainly see, after looking behind the fraudulent TMO schlock and snake oil dance, that TM is indeed inextricably tied into the Hindu religion - and because of that it should not be incorporated into the US public education system. > > ==As a teacher trained by MMY, I personally consider TM to be a gift from > > God to humanity. The primary issue here is *NOT* the value of TM. It's the > > underlying fundamental principle of maintaining the separation of church > > and state in a democracy that's paid for by and was set up to represent and > > include *ALL* Americans from *EVERY* faith and *NO* faith. > > > Thanks everyone. I don't claim to speak for "everyone" Lawson. But I will say again that anyone with half a brain can plainly see, after looking behind the fraudulent TMO schlock and snake oil dance, that TM is indeed inextricably tied into the Hindu religion - and because of that it should not be incorporated into the US public education system. If you really think otherwise, I'd say that you're lying to yourself - which is characteristic of cultish thinking by true believers in groups who are zealous to promote their ideologies - especially ones who claim special *exclusive* and *universally* applicable benefits. > > Many religions offer off-campus instruction for students and coordinate > > class times with the public school. But those religious facilities and > > their curriculum have no connection to the public school system itself or > > its purpose. Why doesn't the TMO pursue that avenue?== > Shrug. AN agenda to get a non-culturally based relaxation technique That's an incomplete and misleadingly false premise, Lawson. I'm a MMY trained TM teacher and know directly that what you're saying simply isn't true. What's wrong with offering TM off-campus? You could openly include the whole range of TMO Vedic teachings and offerings to the students without all the time worrying about having to scientifically justify and/or hide it. > accepted in the school system is perfectly laudibe, even if the people with> > the agenda have more than one perspective. > > Do you really think tha tLunch and Marcarney are looking on TM as closet > hinduism? It doesn't matter what Lynch and McCartney think. The fact remains that TM is indeed deeply and inextricably tied into the Hindu religion - and because of that it should not be incorporated into the US public education system. To preach otherwise is to perpetuate what's been wrong with the TMO all along - not telling the full open truth about TM and trying to hide it behind claims like, as you have just done, that it's a merely a relaxation technique. It isn't. IN REALITY -as it is- with the dismal state of the essentially insignificant and relatively nonexistent current TMO, I don't think TM is *EVER* going to be wholesale included in *ANY* public school system. After how badly it's lost any observable importance in the public arena, other than to be seen as a quirky oddity not unlike the Moonies or the Rajneeshies, it doesn't have a rat's ass of a chance to get anywhere on a large scale.
