Doc, Yep, good writing. Nice perspective of experience. Best Regards, -Buck
--- In [email protected], doctordumbass@... <no_reply@...> wrote: > > (couldn't figure out why my response to you wasn't posting, until I saw you > had modified your post). Anyway, the previous one was better, and included > the relevant portions of Xeno's post, so I kept my response, as it was, > without an update: > > Ok, I'll start here. By the way, Ravi, I am not on some kind of vendetta > towards you. You said some things that pissed me off, and I wanted to let you > know it. Unless you have more to say about it, I don't. > > Regarding Xeno's post, I'll take it from here: (snipped his intro and some > other stuff for clarity) > > XA: > > > Especially with initial experiences there is a strong tendency, of which > > > we are usually almost completely unaware, to be full of ourselves. We now > > > 'know' something others do not know. Our ego co-ops the experience and we > > > strut around like total ass holes with our new-found toy. > > **Before addressing your sweeping generalization, I'd like to touch on > context. This forum serves as a sounding board for spiritual expression. Put > another way, nothing is out of bounds, nor considered absolute here. > > Therefore, and considering there are some who can appreciate the expression, > I will sometimes discuss elements of my enlightenment, and am always careful > to point out that initial liberation is merely a marker, like CC. Personal > growth never, ever stops - I think everyone here agrees with that statement, > regardless of which side of the enlightenment divide, we sit on. > > I do not really know where I am relative to the seven states of consciousness > that Maharishi set out. I remember CC quite well, and someone said it is the > state where we relate to the Silence within us, but are most divorced from > anything on the outside. We don't yet embrace the outside as ourselves. Still > capable of individual love, but not yet universal love. > > Very true, and a hugely painful place to live. One that I confronted as much > as possible, to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Very > unpleasant - poor emotional integration in CC. We have the whole world, only > it is still us, and them. Leaks into the outer environment also - not just > someplace like FFL, but real life as well. > > So, if I could try to explain what has happened since the onset of CC (early > 2005), I would say that life events became increasingly challenging and > stressful, imagine that, culminating in an almost unbearable intensity for > about the last four years, and the only path for survival I had, was straight > through the middle. Everyone and everything dear to me was slipping away from > me, and I could do nothing but place myself in the center of it, and manage > through it. > > This forced me to transcend the wall of ignorance I saw before me in CC, to > something much more accessible and wonderful. A new, fresh world, of > authentic human beings, each one a miracle in their own right. A life in > general full of wonder. So many mysteries to be tickled by, and innocently > discovered. > > By continuing to break down that wall between me and you, I have been able to > experience everything, more and more, simply as myself - an identity shift. I > enjoy some parts of myself more than others - lol, and I have always been my > harshest critic. There is constant room for growth and acceptance within me, > and an insatiable thirst for discovery and growth. > > So it is an interesting thing that my personality has not changed much, nor > is it apparent through my outer expression, that the things I say of "others" > are speaking to those elements of myself, as them. My identity now includes > them, and you, and the other. > > Condemnation and truly giving up on another are impossible, because I would > be doing the same to me. However, a good (written) kick in the butt, never > hurt anyone, including me. Aim carefully, though. :-) > > If I missed anything, please let me know. Thanks. > > And if we are > > > more aged and mature and we have a truly deep insight, this may, almost > > > certainly, occur to some extent, and it can be very subtle, and we may be > > > unaware yet, of its insidious presence. In some traditions this is called > > > the 'stink of enlightenment'. It can last for years and years. > > > > > > Now I am making up some rules here (and copping some from various > > > teachers): > > > > > > *If you are still seeking a higher level of experience, you are not > > > liberated. > > > > > > *If you feel the realisations you have had are important, that you look > > > back on them, you are not liberated. > > > > > > *If you do not see that enlightenment is a kind of cosmic joke, but is a > > > deadly serious goal, you are not liberated. > > > > > > *If you think you have a new, improved relationship with the universe, you > > > are not liberated. > > > > > > *If you think others lack enlightenment or the capacity thereto, you are > > > not liberated. That does not mean you are absent the full value of > > > enlightenment or ever were. > > > > > > *These rules are baloney but if applied properly may keep one from > > > tripping over one's own feet to some extent. Do not pay attention to the > > > man manipulating behind the curtain, unless that man is you. > > > > > > It is really a stretch to claim enlightenment because realisation brings > > > absolutely nothing new to life, gives one nothing that one can lord over > > > others, gives one nothing one can give to others, gives one nothing that > > > can improve others. A thorn to remove a thorn as M said, a delusion to > > > remove a delusion. The path is a smokescreen to trick one into letting > > > everything go. > > > > > > Everyone here on FFL is your friend, if you see the world without a chip > > > in your eye. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@> wrote: > > > > "Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone." > > > > Oh wow - that would explain a lot of things with Jim. > > > > A young skinny Jim while washing dishes at a remote TM center somewhere in > > the Midwest hears this cool teacher Barry brag to a chick - "Maharishi sez > > CC is a stepping stone". > > > > Jimbo soon moves on, because he was never smart enough, cool enough, rich > > enough - but he never forgets. Time flies by but he always remembers that > > "CC is a stepping stone" as he retires every night. > > > > Soon Jimbo is no longer skinny. Lots of water has flown down the Ganges and > > Jimbo is now a clearly weary middle aged, rather..how do I put this in a > > sensitive, politically correct way, well rather obese, who swears he won't > > return wherever unless he is enlightened. He begins his quest for the magic > > stone CC. > > > > He hasn't forgotten what Barry had once said. He knows he has to step on CC > > to scale the wall of samsaara and haul his sorry, obese ass to GC and > > beyond. > > > > But Jimbo being an idiot had failed to take into account that the magic > > stone CC was built by skinny, starving Indian yogis who prided on their > > life-abnegating, masochistic skills as spirituality to masquerade their > > lack of materialistic opportunities. They clearly hadn't bargained a > > society materially rich where people enjoyed life and that there would be > > the possibility of an obese albiet weary Jimbo trying to step on it. It was > > only designed to handle 160 pounds !!! > > > > Well Jimbo stepped onto CC enthusiastically as he lurched to scale the wall > > of samsara. But poor Humpty Dumpty Jim landed on his sorry, obese ass. He > > was humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed as CC split into two little C's. > > > > Oh how sad poor Jim must have been - I have tears in my eyes just > > contemplating that pathetic scene. > > > > This had a tremendous impact on Humpty Dumpty Jim. He recalled that > > enlightened was hard to measure in one's actions - he had many, many inane, > > banal platitudes by heart. Out of his incredible pain and sadness came a > > beautiful story of his purported Enlightenment. > > > > Which of course didn't convince Bob Price who after a couple of minutes of > > watching Jim's interview started cleaning CD's - but whatever. Jimbo - this > > is terrible, I think I may well refrain from making fun of your > > enlightenment. I can see why your buttons get pushed anytime people start > > criticizing Maharishi, TM and now Girish. You can't help it - I'm sorry I > > pissed you off, I didn't know your Enlightenment was hiding all this pain > > of your humiliation. > > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Nice list, Xeno. Maharishi also once called CC a stepping stone. Good or > > > something like that. But a stepping stone. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius <anartaxius@> > > > *To:* [email protected] > > > *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2013 10:46 AM > > > *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Barry and Curtis's hubris [was Re: A lie is > > > only a lie] > > > > > > > > > <snip Guru Xeno's inane, banal platitudes> > > > > > >
