High five - perfume only goes so far.
--- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah these Mr. Nice Guys with their schtick of rapport, understanding,
> exchanging POV's while excusing away dishonesty, hypocrisy always end up
> creating a toxic environment here.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 12:28 PM, doctordumbass@... <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, Obba. Curtis Is A Really Really NICE GUY. Nothing
> > personal towards him, at all. He happens to represent a point of view that
> > I consider damaging and short-sighted. I also consider him one of the
> > emotional retards on here. But again, nothing personal. Just stating my
> > opinion.
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], obbajeeba <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know, right?
> > >
> > > Barry as Edward Mercer,
> > > Curtis as Uccello, in:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCyAQaRB0iw
> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCyAQaRB0iw>
> > >
> > >
> > > Welcome, Curtis blues man! Hope all is playing well. Peace.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], doctordumbass@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Its...its SYNESTHESIA, Dude! (though I could've SWORN Barry told Share
> > > to "SHUT THE FUCK UP!", this morning, didn't he??). Hmm. Must've been
> > > the synesthesia, again...
> > > >
> > > > I am sure glad we have The Wisdom Of Science weighing in for us, in
> > > all its pristine, and objective, glory!! And what better person to
> > > deliver this pristine and objective message, than Curtis!!??
> > > >
> > > > Mock humility and earnestness-ness-ness, at its finest. With Acolyte
> > > Barry at his side, the truth will flow forth, freely, and fluidly, from
> > > now on!!
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Ravi, these are glorious times!! All Hail Curtis and his black
> > > tongue! Deep Bow, while I vomit forth my reverence.
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah the incredible, intoxicating blend of Rory and Curtis's wisdom
> > > and
> > > > > brilliance.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's all about the rapport - you hear you FFL bitches, it's all
> > > about
> > > > > rapport, it's all about the feel good factor - come on let's start
> > > this
> > > > > from today - Barry, Share, Ravi, Mean girls - you listening?
> > > > >
> > > > > To hell with truth - welcome dishonesty, hypocrisy, all kinds of
> > > > > mood-making masking religious delusional beliefs, fuck authenticity,
> > > > > genuineness.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dawn of a new era on FFL?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:01 AM, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey, Curtis! Long time!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been refraining from reading FFL to rest, recuperate, and
> > > > > > assimilate, but a friend gave me a heads-up that you had
> > > "uncloaked" with a
> > > > > > message that he felt I should read, and a link to it, I just read
> > > it and
> > > > > > must say I greatly appreciate your clarification -- and no apology
> > > needed,
> > > > > > my friend. Thank you so much.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, to me, rapport is what it's all about, if at all possible.
> > > But I have
> > > > > > perhaps gotten rather soft from being here in Fairfield, where
> > > love is
> > > > > > tangibly everywhere. Well, that and not enough exercise, of
> > > course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See you around sometime, I hope! All glory to Guru You! ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *L*L*L*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rory:
> > > > > > > Curtis, of course -- can tell with such utter
> > > > > > > > > > certainty that my entire spiritual life has been phony.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From another post:
> > > > > > > ...Now it appears you may somewhat agree with
> > > > > > > > Curtis, who saw me as a Neurolinguistic-programming,
> > > form-running
> > > > > > > > charlatan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Me:
> > > > > > > I wanted to drop in to comment on the idea that I think of Rory
> > > as a
> > > > > > phony or a charlatan. I do not. My view of people who have the
> > > kind of
> > > > > > experiences that Rory has shared is more nuanced than that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My current perspective involves how our brains communicate
> > > within
> > > > > > itself, and how some wires get crossed (think synesthesia between
> > > senses as
> > > > > > an example, hearing colors). My current belief is that this can
> > > result in
> > > > > > experiencing subjective experiences as if they are as as
> > > compelling as our
> > > > > > external reality. I am not making a case for this being a defect,
> > > because
> > > > > > it can be a source for profound creativity. So let's take Rory as
> > > charlatan
> > > > > > off my table. I believe he is sincere from the limited contact I
> > > have had
> > > > > > with him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But, just as with Maharishi, that doesn't mean that I hold his
> > > > > > epistemological conclusions as valid. I do not. My question is
> > > about how we
> > > > > > deal with this kind of subjective knowledge. I am skeptical that
> > > it
> > > > > > provides an insight into "reality" that bypasses any of our other
> > > methods
> > > > > > of verification of ideas which may or may not include the methods
> > > of
> > > > > > science. I rate all our subjective experiences the same as any
> > > other
> > > > > > hypothesis that needs further study taking into account the human
> > > tendency
> > > > > > to conflate our enthusiasm for an idea for the likelihood that it
> > > is true.
> > > > > > We all suck at this as a natural tendency, myself included.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for the language form used, my point concerned the use of
> > > language
> > > > > > that is coming from a trance state and is meant to shift the state
> > > of the
> > > > > > listener from sensory based to internal connections based. This is
> > > how
> > > > > > poetry and hypnosis works. I consider my ability to ride this wave
> > > and to
> > > > > > generate these waves of language myself to be at the center of my
> > > creative
> > > > > > ability with language, so it is not a negative on its face.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problems I see comes when we confuse this kind of language
> > > with the
> > > > > > style we use to convey concrete meaning. That causes problems when
> > > the
> > > > > > person using this language form claims to be telling us about how
> > > reality
> > > > > > really is. (I'm looking at you immolated Maharishi.) This type of
> > > language
> > > > > > was described by Grinder and Bandler the founders of NLP when they
> > > did
> > > > > > their modeling of the hypnotherapist Milton Erickson and their
> > > perspective
> > > > > > has influenced my own about how this language form works. The rest
> > > comes
> > > > > > from my own experiences teaching TM and then doing NLP therapy for
> > > people
> > > > > > after leaving TM as well as an analysis of my own creative
> > > songwriting
> > > > > > process.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So what is the difference between when Bob Dylan does this and
> > > when a
> > > > > > "spiritual" teacher does it? When you ask Bob Dylan what it
> > > "means" he
> > > > > > says, I don't know, that is up to you. Figurative language is a
> > > launching
> > > > > > pad for internal abstract thought. When you ask a spiritual master
> > > what he
> > > > > > "means" he might tell you that when you are in his state of
> > > consciousness
> > > > > > you will fully understand. I reject the many imbedded premises in
> > > this
> > > > > > statement. Would Rory answer this way? I don't know, I forget most
> > > of what
> > > > > > I read from him when we were interacting here. My view of
> > > spiritual
> > > > > > experiences is an evolving one as I gather more data on how our
> > > brains
> > > > > > function.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Most of what I remember about Rory is that he uses a style of
> > > reframing
> > > > > > language as a type of verbal jiu jitsu. By this I mean when people
> > > attack
> > > > > > him he refers to them as a part of himself attacking himself.
> > > Although I
> > > > > > don't doubt this emerges from his internal experiences, it is also
> > > embedded
> > > > > > in a philosophy and web of beliefs about the world that I do not
> > > share. I
> > > > > > think it is a really good linguistic coping strategy for the
> > > projectile
> > > > > > attacks that this place is full of. It works on many different
> > > levels for
> > > > > > him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So why the drive by today? Because I like Rory and don't want to
> > > let an
> > > > > > impression remain that I think of him in such a negative way. If
> > > he
> > > > > > expressed it all as art rather than philosophy I would just
> > > appreciate him
> > > > > > as I do the rest of my wacky artistic buddies. He is a really
> > > creative guy
> > > > > > and I value that. But when it is expressed as philosophy I like to
> > > show
> > > > > > where I am drawing my lines to distinguish my beliefs from his or
> > > anyone
> > > > > > else who expresses a "spiritual" POV. I don't share the confidence
> > > > > > "spiritual" people do in their assumptions or conclusions and
> > > enjoy
> > > > > > expressing my evolving POV. (Or at least I used to here.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another big plus in my mind about Rory is that he values rapport
> > > here as
> > > > > > I do. I remember our interactions very positively. He came off as
> > > willing
> > > > > > to interact with someone skeptical about his conclusions about his
> > > own
> > > > > > experiences. Maharishi certainly was never open to that kind of
> > > dialogue
> > > > > > and interaction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So "respect" Rory. You are interpreting your experiences in life
> > > just as
> > > > > > I do. I may not share your conclusions, nor you mine. The fact
> > > that we
> > > > > > looked beyond that to have some interesting discussions here makes
> > > you a
> > > > > > bro in my book. If I came off as harsh toward you in the past, I
> > > apologize.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "RoryGoff" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "RoryGoff" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > (snip)
> > > > > > > > > > Ha! You crack me up, Ravi. I love how you -- and
> > > apparently
> > > > > > > > > > Judy, and Curtis, of course -- can tell with such utter
> > > > > > > > > > certainty that my entire spiritual life has been phony.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never suggested that, Rory, nor did I say I could
> > > > > > > > > tell anything about you with anything like "utter
> > > > > > > > > certainty." I really don't appreciate your claiming
> > > > > > > > > otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I said "apparently" in your case, Judy, as it did appear that
> > > way to
> > > > > > me. You may have meant it differently, of course, but "phony as a
> > > > > > three-dollar bill" sounded pretty certain to me. I didn't register
> > > your
> > > > > > saying anything like, "Well, I don't know for sure, of course, but
> > > at the
> > > > > > moment it appears to me that ..." etc. Again, I am only "claiming"
> > > how it
> > > > > > appeared to me. If you meant otherwise, I am sorry, and thank you
> > > for
> > > > > > clarifying.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
