---In [email protected], <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :
---In [email protected], <jr_esq@...> wrote : Barry, Have you ever thought that atheism is also a belief-- and an unreasonable one at that? M: Couldn't help overhearing... Atheism is not a belief because it is not a positive assertion that there is no God. It is the assertion that there is no compelling evidence to support the belief. We don't need to have a belief that there are no unicorns. Maybe there are. We just don't have any evidence to support our belief in one. (Probably people made the story up, they tend to enjoy that being such creative creatures.) Jr: The Kalam Cosmological Argument should dispel any of your doubts. M: It does not for two reasons that come to mind. Here is a formulation (feel free to substitute your own if this is not the right one in your eyes..) Everything that begins to exist has a cause; Unwarranted assumption. We don't know if this is true at the scales of time and space involved in creation. It is a typical imposition of our limited view of the sensory world to scales that are completely unplugged from our ability to intuit about it. It is unnecessary and merely contrived as if to say : There must be a God so there must be a God. Logic is not a proof. It can preserve truth through proper syllogistic form, but it is only as good as the assumptions which must be proven another way. This is not a good start. 2. The universe began to exist M: There are a lot a problems with this assumptions since it imposes sequential time assumptions on an event which by nature is beyond time and space. This is the realm of "you probably don't really understand it" physics. (Me either, the subject requires math waaaaay beyond my pay grade.) therefore: 3The universe has a cause. Yeah, surprise surprise. This is no proof, it is an an assumption disguised as something logical as if that makes it less assumptive-y. It doesn't. I like the last image joke best. What I find interesting is not so much whether there is a God or not but the lengths to which people go to try and argue their point and/or to make others feel bad about their own viewpoint. This subject is fraught with those who suddenly became quite rabid when otherwise they are content to sip tea and talk about the roses and the weather. The other funny thing is how some categorize sharply those who they think feel differently from themselves even though half the time many are just playing devils' advocate or juggling ideas to see which ones seem to resonate as closest to the truth in any given moment. I certainly have no certain ideas about God or its existence or whether there is one or many or none. What I do feel pretty certain about is lots of intelligence in the Universe and the existence of forces beyond who I am and what I can know as a human being. But I don't feel strongly enough one way or another to attack anyone here for either their belief in God or their non belief in God. What I find worth railing against is the way in which some here try and get their beliefs across when they are different from someone else's. Here is what I would prefer someone does: Believe what you want but don't attack me if it is different from what you believe or put words in my mouth or make up stuff in order to be able to attack what I actually never said.
