---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote :


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote :


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote :


 Have you ever thought that atheism is also a belief-- and an unreasonable one 
at that? 

M: Couldn't help overhearing...
Atheism is not a belief because it is not a positive assertion that there is no 
God. It is the assertion that there is no compelling evidence to support the 
belief. We don't need to have a belief that there are no unicorns. Maybe there 
are. We just don't have any evidence to support our belief in one. (Probably 
people made the story up, they tend to enjoy that being such creative 

Jr:  The Kalam Cosmological Argument should dispel any of your doubts.

M: It does not for two reasons that come to mind. Here is a formulation (feel 
free to substitute your own if this is not the right one in your eyes..)
 Everything that begins to exist has a cause; Unwarranted assumption. We don't 
know if this is true at the scales of time and space involved in creation. It 
is a typical imposition of our limited view of the sensory world to scales that 
are completely unplugged from our ability to intuit about it. It is unnecessary 
and merely contrived as if to say : There must be a God so there must be a God. 
Logic is not a proof. It can preserve truth through proper syllogistic form, 
but it is only as good as the assumptions which must be proven another way. 
This is not a good start.   


 2. The universe began to exist

 M: There are a lot a problems with this assumptions since it imposes 
sequential time assumptions on an event which by nature is beyond time and 
space. This is the realm of "you probably don't really understand it" physics. 
(Me either, the subject requires math waaaaay beyond my pay grade.)




 3The universe has a cause.

 Yeah, surprise surprise. This is no proof, it is an an assumption disguised as 
something logical as if that makes it less assumptive-y. It doesn't.

 I like the last image joke best.


 A: What I find interesting is not so much whether there is a God or not but 
the lengths to which people go to try and argue their point

 M: Might be the difference between people with an interest in philosophy or 


 A: and/or to make others feel bad about their own viewpoint. 


 M: I am not sure this would be within my power even if it were a goal, which 
it isn't.


 A: This subject is fraught with those who suddenly became quite rabid when 
otherwise they are content to sip tea and talk about the roses and the weather. 


 M: Some people have poor intellectual boundaries.


 A: The other funny thing is how some categorize sharply those who they think 
feel differently from themselves even though half the time many are just 
playing devils' advocate or juggling ideas to see which ones seem to resonate 
as closest to the truth in any given moment. I certainly have no certain ideas 
about God or its existence or whether there is one or many or none. What I do 
feel pretty certain about is lots of intelligence in the Universe and the 
existence of forces beyond who I am and what I can know as a human being. But I 
don't feel strongly enough one way or another to attack anyone here for either 
their belief in God or their non belief in God. What I find worth railing 
against is the way in which some here try and get their beliefs across when 
they are different from someone else's. Here is what I would prefer someone 
does: Believe what you want but don't attack me if it is different from what 
you believe or put words in my mouth or make up stuff in order to be able to 
attack what I actually never said.

 M: That sounds reasonable. 






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