--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:00 AM, authfriend wrote: [Vaj wrote:] > >> It's something you would have to experience, it's just the best > >> way to describe it. > > > > Seems to me what Lawson is pointing out is that > > "spontaneous paralysis" in the context of samadhi > > (pure transcendental consciousness, or turiya) > > doesn't make any sense. The instant one *tries* > > to move, one is no longer in that state. > > That's sad. So much for dyeing the cloth. IMO many have been > conditioned to believe that TM leads to "pure transcendental > consciousness, or turiya".
And your reasons for thinking turiya does not occur during TM are...? "Dying the cloth" refers to the integration of pure transcendental consciousness with the three ordinary states, but the integrated state is not turiya, of course. So I'm not sure why you even mention dying the cloth in this context. > > In other words, that one's muscles don't move in > > samadhi is a function of having no intention to > > move (or any other intention). There's no way to > > establish paralysis in turiya because there's no > > way to test it. > > You're describing something different. Sounds like you're > describing samapatti (mental absorption into mantra). If what you're saying has any validity, then obviously we're not describing the same thing, as I went on to note. I'm trying to get you to be more precise so we can see what the differences are. Here's what I'm describing: "The fourth state [turiya] is not that which is conscious of the subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, nor that which is all-sentient mass, nor that which is all darkness. It is unseen, transcendent, the sole essence of the consciousness of self, the completion of the world."--Mandakya Upanishad > Experientially the sensation of paralysis is quite clear. If there is any "sensation" of anything, it's not turiya, per the Mandakya Upanishad's definition. > You seem to be assuming that people cannot consciously enter > samadhi-- or the particular state where this paralysis occurs. No, I'm not assuming that. But if you're referring to entering turiya, then "paralysis," as noted, doesn't make any sense. In turiya, there is no awareness *of* anything but awareness itself. Turiya is not object- oriented consciousness; there are no objects of perception (subjective, as of paralysis, or objective) in turiya. I *think* what you're describing is not turiya but an integrated state, what TM would call "witnessing," in meditation. But then your comment above that I wasn't describing turiya makes no sense. <snip> > > Paralysis and anesthesia are two different > > phenomena. One can be paralyzed without being > > anesthetized, and certainly locally anesthetized > > without being paralyzed. > > > > Further, *I've* had minor surgery with very little > > local anesthesia, without any meditative component. > > These terms are far too relative, depending on far > > too many individual factors, to be meaningful as > > you've described the situation. > > > > Again, there may be something to what you say, but > > you haven't presented it in a way that establishes > > anything. > > In the case I was discussing it was a painful form of nasal > surgery. Thus the physician's letter and amazement. That does sound unusual. Still doesn't explain why your "spontaneous paralysis" would induce spontaneous anesthesia, though, given the difference in the two phenomena. It almost sounds as though the poor guy could have been paralyzed while still experiencing extreme pain, and the physician thought the fact that he wasn't moving or screaming was because he wasn't feeling the pain! Perhaps "paralyzed" isn't the correct term in this case. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
