On Nov 21, 2005, at 10:11 AM, authfriend wrote:

--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:00 AM, authfriend wrote:


[Vaj wrote:] 


It's something you would have to experience, it's just the best

way to describe it.



Seems to me what Lawson is pointing out is that

"spontaneous paralysis" in the context of samadhi

(pure transcendental consciousness, or turiya)

doesn't make any sense.  The instant one *tries*

to move, one is no longer in that state.



That's sad. So much for dyeing the cloth. IMO many have been  

conditioned to believe that TM leads to "pure transcendental  

consciousness, or turiya".



And your reasons for thinking turiya does not

occur during TM are...?


"Dying the cloth" refers to the integration of

pure transcendental consciousness with the three

ordinary states, but the integrated state is not

turiya, of course.  So I'm not sure why you even

mention dying the cloth in this context.



In other words, that one's muscles don't move in

samadhi is a function of having no intention to

move (or any other intention).  There's no way to

establish paralysis in turiya because there's no

way to test it.



You're describing something different. Sounds like you're 

describing samapatti (mental absorption into mantra).



If what you're saying has any validity, then

obviously we're not describing the same thing,

as I went on to note. I'm trying to get you to

be more precise so we can see what the differences

are.


Here's what I'm describing:


"The fourth state [turiya] is not that which is conscious of the 

subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that 

which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, 

nor that which is all-sentient mass, nor that which is all darkness. 

It is unseen, transcendent, the sole essence of the consciousness of 

self, the completion of the world."--Mandakya Upanishad



Experientially the sensation of paralysis is quite clear.



If there is any "sensation" of anything, it's not

turiya, per the Mandakya Upanishad's definition.



You seem to be assuming that people cannot consciously enter 

samadhi-- or the particular state where this paralysis occurs.



No, I'm not assuming that.  But if you're referring

to entering turiya, then "paralysis," as noted, doesn't

make any sense.  In turiya, there is no awareness *of*

anything but awareness itself.  Turiya is not object-

oriented consciousness; there are no objects of

perception (subjective, as of paralysis, or objective)

in turiya.


I *think* what you're describing is not turiya but an

integrated state, what TM would call "witnessing," in

meditation.  But then your comment above that I wasn't

describing turiya makes no sense.


You seem to be confusing the fourth pranayama with turiya. The fourth pranayama is not taught in TM.



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