I appreciate your commitment, and warning someone of the consequences of sin is OK if they are a close friend I suppose, and/or sharing the same faith. Otherwise, there are many choices for living, and there is also karma for imposing one's will on another. All the religions are incomplete wrt how they interpret God's message, and to assert that one is somehow superior over the others, and then insist that others follow such a doctrine, seems pretty ignorant. There is the ability for any of us to follow a faith quietly, and with great conviction. Especially in these modern times, all religious knowledge is easily available. If a religion is strong enough, there is no reason to proselytize its message to the point that it causes conflict in the lives of those who don't share the same faith, to say nothing of openly imposing its will on others. Thanks for this discussion, and the challenge, and the ability for me to see more clearly your POV, and clarify my own.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : I don't know of any Christian church that will accept abortion as OK or advisable unless the mother's life is endangered. I'm sure there are some that may not talk about it for fear of seeming judgmental or driving away those that won't listen. Warning someone of the consequences of sin is not being judgmental, it's practical advice. I am willing to say the same goes for any other religion. A devout Hindu or devout Buddhist may say nothing but I can almost guarantee that they shrug their shoulders and think, "it's their karma, not mine". Their are people in every faith that don't practice it or only mildly. Christ called them luke warm and said he would spew them out in the end. He demands people that are on fire for Him. Maharishi wanted people that were *one pointed* , on the program. If you aren't, he didn't waist time with you. All or nothing. I guess thats OK as long as you aren't told that Killing infidels via Jihad is the best guaranteed method to heaven. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' Yes, every religion can be shown to have its hypocrisy, but this insistence that abortions cannot be performed according to the choice of the woman who is pregnant, is only prevalent in radical Christianity, and radical Islam. Not all Christian sects are against abortion, and not all Muslim countries forbid it. But those at the mercy of the radical preachers of both religions, are pawns, imo. To them I would say, You simply don't have the right, or the authority, to control my life. Go get perfect, first, and then we'll talk, but no butting in line.:-) The more moderate sects of both Christianity and Islam understand this. It is only the radical elements of both of these religions who insist on this complete invasion of personal choice. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : *Innocent Life,* the unborn don't fly jets into buildings or commit any other criminal or hostile act. Killing in Self- defense is justifiable. I believe I mentioned earlier that Abortion is acceptable when the mother's life is threatened.If you are concerned about hypocrisy, Christians aren't alone. Everybody can be labeled Hypocrites one way or another. Can you name one religious/spiritual group that doesn't have *qualifications* as to who receives salvation or liberation. etc?And each believes theirs is superior to others.Look no further than TM! Everyone has their limitations and understanding of religion and spirituality. If you have followed Maharishi's teachings you will know that we are born into our lives based on our karma, which dictates the circumstances of our lives and how and what values we grow up with to experience life. If you were born into a Judeo-Christian culture, those are the values you are meant to experience life from. In India, from that perspective. A Muslim, that perspective and so on. That is your dharma and how you grow. This is why Maharishi used to say, one doesn't need to change religions to practice TM successfully. Add TM to whatever you are and you'll be better. Everyone has a different understanding based on their ability to understand. We all start from somewhere. The question is, where do we finish up? Follow your dharma for maximum growth. Gita says, it's better to die within your dharma, even if done poorly than to die in someone else's dharma, even if well done. If you were born a Jew , then be one but practice TM. If you were born a Christian, then be one but practice TM. If you were born a Muslim...., a Hindu... etc. but practice TM. BTW, if you think you can convert to be a Hindu, you can't. Speak to any Vedic priest,. he'll tell you pretty much what I just said. And if you insist, dude, just imagine starting at the bottom of the barrel, as an untouchable, so you learn the full scope of what it is to be a real Hindu! LOL. No thanks! From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' It is cherry-picking, led by the radical Christian pastors. If the sanctity of human life is so important, where are the anti-war demonstrations by the Christians? Those aren't fetuses we are bombing, and invading, they are fully grown human beings, men, women and yes, children, but not a peep from the anti-abortion crowd about their maiming and slaughter. I think it is because of the hypocrisy of their position - I once heard a Christian pastor say that a dog could not get into Heaven, unless it was a Christian dog (no kidding). The same justification is used for killing Muslims. What I would like to see is all of the Christians taking responsibility for the tragic loss of life that occurs due to our government's actions, including war. This picking on the poor souls that undergo abortions is bullying and hypocrisy, imo. It is a radical religious view held by those who wish to continue the co-dependent relationship they have with their flocks. These preachers are a lot like the politicians, framing the (conveniently insurmountable) "problems" and "issues" that their congregations face, ensuring their followers will feel both bereft, and beholden to the churches. What a scam. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : Actually, I believe I was giving a non religious explanation against abortion. The very founding documents, our nation are built upon, recognizes our unalienable(can not be denied) rights to *Life* liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You can't have liberty or happiness without Life. These rights are attributed to an All Mighty Creator because if such a thing existed, who is anyone to deny them? The very same person that wrote those words also wrote about the concept of a separation of Church and state. So, they are separate issues. The basic human rights recognized by the government are not religion based. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' This whole abortion "debate" seems like such a set up. Why proclaim that due to religious principles, abortion is murder, or that gay marriage is sin, and then live in the USA? I am not suggesting such believers should leave, though it seems like an awful lot of heartache to go through, to insist on a religious truth so strenuously, that to have the opposite practiced by some, becomes a constant thorn in the believer's side. Who wants to live like that? It seems like a set up, designed to cause the believers additional pain, and have them become co-dependent on such ideas, and the organizations that publicize them. Life is tough enough, imo. And the issue is NOT that the Christians cannot live by their beliefs. No one is insisting *they* get abortions or participate in gay marriage. However, they and the radical pastors that preach to them have determined that both of these issues are somehow unholy, and their very practice is an abomination against God. This in no way begins to validate the freedom of each of us to live our lives as we see fit. Religious barriers, no matter how well intentioned, are better practiced personally, vs. imposed on anyone else. I also see a lot more commonality between the fundamentalists of any religion, be they Christians or Muslims, than any side is willing to admit. I do agree that there is a natural law in back of all of this, which we are all personally held to, and responsible for. However, each of us has to make that judgment of ourselves independently. No one can do this for us, or impose it on us, no matter how convinced of their truths they may be. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : We hold these truths to be self evident... certain unalienable Rights,among these are LIFE! Unalienable is defined as, *can not be denied*. Without the most fundamental right of life, no other rights matter. When does life begin? Theologically, that is open to discussion. Biologically, it begins when Conjoined DNA begins to divide. It is the very beginning of life, it's self.That DNA is not the mother's, it's not the father's, it is the unique DNA of separate human being with all of it's potential from beginning to end. It has a right that can not be denied. Socially and theologically speaking, that unalienable right to life is considered sacred as long as it is innocent. Violate specific laws of society and that sacred value can be forfeited by the law breaker, it's his conscious decision. But never was it intended to to be denied on a basis of someone else's circumstances/ convenience. Do we really want to go down that road? Hitler did, as did many other tyrants and they have been traditionally labeled as EVIL, even Anti-Christ. I speak in biological terms of life because we value our society in secular terms and spiritual values are not considered valid anymore because certain people don't want other's religions imposed upon them.. From: "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' To me, black and white thinking takes on the cloak of "casual, indifferent, etc.", or "blasé," if you will. The remark "Oh shit! I missed my period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" seemed off the cuff and appeared to indicate a prejudiced and surficial understanding of the issue...."blasé." Curiously, Mike, do you believe in the soul? Do you believe in the eternal soul? Do you believe that the soul dies along with a potential life that was aborted by the mother, a potential life that could not survive independently at 6 weeks and that even nature aborts naturally at times (called miscarriages). Do you believe that it could be possible that if there is a soul, that the soul may "live" to incarnate in a different host/mother? Just food for thought. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : I draw the line with *murder* as one human willfully killing another innocent human. There's manslaughter, accidents etc.Then there is killing for food.I can admire one who observes ahimsa as going above and beyond the call of duty as a penance. From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : "My blase attitudes", did I get that right? How can anything be more blase than to sweep away and destroy an innocent human life because you're not ready to be responsible for*it* yet? It's freaking murder! A women's right to murder? The Supreme Court will wake up one day, just as they did when they ruled one human can not own another or that Slaves were not 3/5ths of a human being, because "all men are created equal" under the law. That took two hundred years to get right , but it happened. Science is moving the understanding of life forward very fast. If the science of DNA can put a person in prison for life for a crime, it will save a life that is innocent of a crime. It's not her body that she kills. FYI, all person's involved in the creation of another, need to be equally responsible for that life. Yes, that presents new social problems but the first rule is do no harm to innocent life. I love your passion, Mike. I am of the belief that all lives are created equal. When I say that I mean ALL lives. Human or animal. Blasphemous? Perhaps. Maybe. Likely. To kill any thing is a kind of murder. Killing a fetus is destroying life. Butchering a terrified, bleating cow is destroying a life. Euthanizing an old and decrepit dog is destroying a life. Is life sacred? Probably. What is sacred? Anything that is created. Is allowing something to live sometimes opening the way for suffering? Yes. Is destroying a life sometimes decreasing the chances of suffering? Yes. Is it better to overdose a dangerous horse with phenyl barbital so it doesn't kill somebody merciful? Is aborting an unwanted baby the right thing to do? Is there ever the justification for causing death of a living being? It all gets so complicated. Is the death penalty ever warranted? Are unwanted, unloved, abused children happy to have been given the chance to live despite the fact they may have been conceived by rape? I can't answer this but what I do know is that human beings are given hundreds of chances to make choices every moment of every day and the freedom to make those choices must remain intact. From: "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' There is another issue I'd like to comment on about ignorant men thinking they know all about pregnancy and childbirth and raising children on their own with no support—particularly the ones that think they should judge, condemn, and legislate women's rights. Yes, Mike, it's the girl "who missed her period" that's at fault, right? Not the boy or man with the raging hormones who pressured her and pressured her and pressured her to give in to his desires and then left the scene.....give me a break. I'm not saying you shouldn't stand by your religious convictions, but maybe you ought to dig a little deeper into your "blasé" attitudes. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are *Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness*- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Your right to *privacy* will not stand against another person's right to Life.... much longer, religion or no religion. You will need to abolish the first amendment that grants freedom of political speech and freedom of religion first. Everyone knows that the overwhelming majority of abortions in this country are simply birth control, "Oh shit! I missed my period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" It's rarely about health or life of the mother. Fifty-three million abortions can not account for that. " "Why would I want my daughter to be *punished* with a child?" Obama's words, not mine. This is the mind set of *Me first* and to hell with what's right. It is the purest of evil and it will not stand. From: "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell' Whether you like it or not, abortion is legal in this country. To jeopardize the health of poor women because of your religious convictions is untenable.
