--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Isn't that, after all, AnonAkashaGabbyMoose's > > > > > > issue? He wants the experiences of enlighten- > > > > > > ment that people have had to fit into the > > > > > > descriptions of them he has heard over the > > > > > > years. He's so used to the map that he wants > > > > > > people's experiences to have creases in them > > > > > > in the same places his maps do. :-) > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't think that's what he's saying at all. > > > > > Unless you believe experiences should never be > > > > > discussed, you have to find ways to describe them; > > > > > and a standardized vocabulary for such descriptions, > > > > > to the extent possible, facilitates understanding > > > > > and comparison. Otherwise not much communication > > > > > takes place. > > > > > > > > Just to add, I'm not suggesting one should strictly > > > > limit oneself to a standardized vocabulary. It's > > > > something to start from, to use as a basis, then > > > > elaborate on, depart from, whatever, as appropriate. > > > > It can even be used negatively--e.g., "It *wasn't* > > > > like this. Instead, it was like..." > > > > > > But what's the *point* of all this "communication?" > > > > You're the guy who's always calling for people to > > discuss their experiences. You tell me. > > I'm interested in hearing from people who have > *had* experiences.
So what's the *point* of all this "communication" you're calling for from these people? I have almost no interest > in hearing from those who've only read about > them or heard about them. :-) > > > > Seems to me that often it's people who have not had > > > a particular experience trying to "understand" the > > > experience, on the basis of hearing it described or > > > theorized about. > > > > Is that why you keep insisting on hearing about > > other people's experiences? > > Do you repeat yourself in other contexts this often? :-) That was a different question, obviously. Do you avoid responding to questions in other contexts this often? > > With many spiritual experiences, > > > I've found that the people who *had* the experiences > > > don't understand them. Many of them are honest enough > > > to say so. > > > > What's the point of describing an experience, then, > > if there's no understanding behind it? > > Just for fun, to throw words out, see if they > work this time, and when realizing that they > don't, to laugh at oneself? :-) What's the point of demanding that others describe *their* experiences? > > > I guess the bottom line from this point of view, is > > > that I'm just more of a fan of having experiences > > > than sitting around talking about someone else's > > > experiences. > > > > So again, why do you put such importance on > > folks describing their experiences? > > The "importance" you attach to my interest is, like > many things you write about, all in your mind. :-) Oh, no, actually it isn't. Do you really want me to go dig up a bunch of your past remarks on the topic? > > You even > > claim that people who don't must not have had > > any. > > Usually when they're on record previously as stating > for the record that they haven't. Why would you demand that someone describe their experiences who has stated for the record that they haven't had any? > Such as yourself in several cases. :-) You're misrepresenting what I've said, as you know. > > You've also asserted that the TMO discourages > > talking about experiences (although that isn't > > the case, at least since I learned TM) in order > > to cover up the fact that TMers aren't having > > any experience. > > I still think that's true. You can believe whatever > you want. As if you wou wouldn't anyway. :-) It isn't a matter of "belief," since the TMO does *not* discourage talking about experiences (and there are plenty of them to talk about). > > > That can be fun if one finds the > > > discussion or the experiene being discussed > > > interesting, but I'm not convinced that hearing > > > about it is going to either really help you > > > understand it or prepare you for the experience > > > itself. > > > > No, as I suggested in the post you're responding > > to, such descriptions are most useful in the other > > direction, i.e., after one has had an experience. > > At any rate, that's been the case for me. (I > > believe that's what Michael was saying as well.) > > > > > *On the other hand*, from another point of view, > > > there may be some value in hearing the vibe "behind" > > > the words that a person uses to describe an exper- > > > ience that they know is indescribable. The words > > > themselves mean nothing, but perhaps the vibe > > > behind the words can provide a "pointer" to an > > > intuitive feeling about the actual experience, > > > a finger pointing to the moon. > > > > > > Given the second point of view, I would say that > > > there is a greater likelihood of profiting from a > > > discussion of a spiritual experience with someone > > > who has actually had the experience than from a > > > discussion among people who haven't. > > > > Uh, right. I don't think anybody was suggesting > > otherwise. > > > > In the former > > > case, the "vibe" might slip through underneath the > > > words; in the latter case, there is no "vibe" to > > > slip anywhere, only theory. > > > > I kind of doubt there's much of a "vibe" in an > > electronic posting, although there may be in a > > "live" setting. > > I disagree. You can either feel it or you can't. > Several people here are on record as saying they > can. As far as I recall, that would be one person, yourself. Others have said that the words themselves did the "pointing" to the experience, not any "vibe" that was independent of the words. If you can't, that's your problem, not theirs. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
