--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> Good points. This one interested me the most:
> "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> beyond science."
> It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I 
> think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the 
> world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You 
> mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at 
> that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math 
> skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of 
> discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about 
> life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these 
> topics.

I don't have a copy of the Wilber book to hand, but
the point he makes is that quantum physics made the
limits of science more clear than they ever had been
before.  Essentially quantum mechanics demonstrates
that science cannot tell us anything *directly* about
reality; it's all shadows on the wall.  We didn't
know that prior to quantum mechanics.  And the people
to whom this is *clearest* are quantum physicists,
which is why so many of them have been prodded to
explore other ways of knowing, such as mysticism.

The physicists know better than the ordinary person
what can and cannot be said regarding the relationship
of physics to mysticism and why.  So if one of 'em has
a speculation along those lines, we might do well to
take it more seriously than one that comes from
somebody like Chopra.

  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend 
> some more time thinking about it.  
>  Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
> > when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
> > free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
> > with our most basic sense of ourselves?
> I still think he is mixing up levels here.  That is what is causing 
> the paradox.

Well, it's certainly different levels of knowing.
Are you willing to accept that you're nothing but
a mechanism?  If not, you have a problem.  I don't
know how you can even think about the problem
without considering both levels.  What's your
single-level solution to it?

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