--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <jflanegi@> 
> >
> > I'd put it this way, before enlightenment all is effort and 
> > afterwards, by definition there is no effort.
> In a pathless path one is directly introduced to the enlightened 
state *from the beginning*. 
> Once one knows, in their own experience, what the "mysterious 
object", the Big E is, one 
> no longer remains in doubt. One applies the Fruit, the Big E,  *as 
the Path.*

Just to clarify what we are talking about, the way I look at it, 
before I began to meditate regularly, I had no experience of 
enlightenment that I knew about or would recognize as such. Then 
when I first meditated (doing TM), I had a flash of what I would 
call enlightenment- felt blissful and in the zone. But daily life 
still pretty much sucked. Or put another way, I was very much out of 
phase between the fulfillment of my desires and my existence. 
However we decide to describe it, it felt like a dual path; I was 
here and my practical happiness was there.

Then the seperation between me and my path, or me and my happiness 
grew thinner and thinner until *ka-blammo*, one day it vanished. At 
that time and since I have been in the zone so to speak; near 
perfect synchronicity between the fulfillment of my desires and me. 
Enlightenment became stabilized. Or I began what I would call the 
pathless path, because a constant reference point to That, or full 
integration with That, was established. However, like every other 
being, learning continues, hence the experience of the pathless path.

So my question in reference to what you have written is, does the 
pathless path as you speak about it begin with that first flash of 
unestablished but recognized enlightenment, or does it begin with 
the establshment of enlightenment, moving forward?


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