Someone might have mentioned this already, but I haven't seen it. If you want some of the functionality of Flex (i.e. forms, data grid, etc...) and cost is an issue, then ColdFusion MX 7 could be an option for you. It has a very cut down version of Flex built into it and accessible via ColdFusion tags, however you can still build some pretty good app's with it - if budget is an issue. Also, there are plenty of companies providing ColdFusion MX 7 hosting.
Check out the team over at ASFusion (http://www.asfusion.com/) who are really doing some cool stuff using ColdFusion MX 7 Flash Forms! Also, http://www.cfform.com/. On 29/09/05, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 9/29/05, Tariq Ahmed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well I don't know if I would venture to "dirt cheap". What other systems > are you referring to? > > See SAP for starters, then once you jump that hurdle, now look at anything > with the word "ORACLE" in it. > > > > If you're enterprise, and building mission critical apps, and especially > if it affects financial performance and need to be SOX compliant you're > basic setup is: > > > > - 1 Development WS > > - 1 QA Server > > - High Availability Setup (at least 2 load balanced machines). > > - Disaster Recovery Site (min 1 web server). > > > > If you're using decent hardware with 4CPU Xeons, you've got 5 machines * 4 > cpus/ea = 20 CPUs * $15K/cpu = $300 000. > > > > You would have to REALLY boost automation, workflow efficiency, etc... to > recuperate the cost of Flex licensing and Flex application development (not > everyone is Scott Barnes level super coder) vs a CF/Whatever based solution. > Not to say that it can't be done, and I'm > > You'd still outlay the same costs if not more with a HTML based solution > such as CFMX. Furthermore, if you are to comply with SOX you have to jump > through a bit more hurdles in authenticating the HTML solution is immune to > various DOS attacks (injection attacks, packet sniffing the works). Then you > have resources and costs associated to building a HTML application. If you > are going down the path of the AJAX momentum, good luck in comparing the > two. > > I'm also talking about systems which have a status "Please turn off in 1 > year, no ifs, no but's". These do exist in enterprise, whereby a legacy > green system is currently turned on and there is about a handful of people > left in the world who know what it does, its that system the IT Director is > scared off the most and nearly faints when the LED's on the outer box > suddenly goes out... Point is, something has to replace it and typically the > cowboy approach is lock one self into a proprietary solution. Salvaging > existing systems is extremely delicate and at times hard, and the main trip > up is simply that whatever gets put in its place isn't agile enough to cope > with not only "replacement" but growth. Some do, some cope really well and > some praise technologies like .NET for salvation. > > Other times its just this mutated be-spoked solution comprising of part > HTML and part other that realistically is hopeless at best in terms of > getting data in and out. > > We at omniEffect specialise in using FLEX to reach out and touch existing > backend systems but provide a uniform view. If you think about a users daily > routine how many UI's do they go in and out of just for farming data. How > peoples perception of how data can be accessed is simply due to whats been > handed down to them by someone who probably should never of had the job of > deciding how UI works. In stead, if you provide a uniform view that reaches > out and touches multiple assets within an Enterprise, you now stand a better > chance of circumventing a lot of issues. Through FLEX you could also provide > a much easier and accessible way to improve on Business Processes in > general? does that save money? most of the time its a tick for yes. In some > Ent Solutions its extremely hard to get a simple report, and to do so its > this monolithic task, which can be at times put into the "too hard basket" > (thus we see these faction(s) of MS Access databases, excel spreadsheets > existing..all open to screw ups, resulting in say, a general ledger being > slightly inaccurate!)... > > FLEX provides a visual input into business intelligence and it may not be > profitable, it just maybe enough to break even on. Yet, it can allow folks > the ability to move forward, to treat their backend as "content" instead of > this mutated ball of part UI part Logic. > > The main problem with FLEX today, is its not really being pushed as much as > it should. There are too many "Kiosk" style applications floating around the > net as "look here, this is a great example of flex"... which is great...yet > if you put these examples into perspective and outlay say 300k as Tariq put > it, it starts looking like probably a bad ROI. > > To me FLEX so far is this powerful tool that every ones too scared to use. > Mission critical systems? hmm, I'm a realist in saying that the chances of > FLEX getting that much prime time within a company this early in the game, > is probably a risk unto itself. There isn't a lot of skillbase in the market > yet to drive home its power as so far we have seen probably a lot of backend > developers suddenly become "Flex developers" which is scary..not because > they are dumb, far from it, it takes a whole new mindset to play in the RIA > world as we are stuck between half-website and half-thickware application. > > FLEX is dirt cheap to someone who's staring at a huge backend system that's > been told in order to upgrade, you must implement this weird HTML/JS based > solution... > > In my opinion, FLEX 2.0 will give us a better stance in "FLEX goes Prime > Time", but that's another discussion. > > > > If all we are using FLEX for is a simple replacement to an existing "HTML > application" or as a POC, yes its expensive prov > > > sure it can (reminder: I am a huge Flex proponent); but looking at things > from a business sense it has to be measureable and provable. Eg I made one > Flex app that compared to what was there before saves about $200K/yr, but > how much more it would save over a CF based solution is hard to measure. > > You made FLEX replace an existing application, did it simply replace or > increase its appeal? Thats the key difference. If you are buying FLEX to > replace existing stuff and that's all it does is put a "Flash" front-end to > a HTML version then you've just spent a fortune on something that probably > didn't require it. FLEX provides the ability to shift perception on how data > works, go from rows of peoples names to displaying each person as a > document. Open that document and you find more data centered around that > person. Its got the power yet to provide your users the ability to see more > details or cull details back... its just not being. > > Selling FLEX to management is probably the hardest thing to do, as firstly > what the hell is a "FLEX" anyway? secondly "You mean flash does more then > spank the monkey? really how?"... at omniEffect we do a presos and the first > thing they see is the UI and immediately start the whole "well that's all > well and good to have a pretty UI but listen here sonny, we have this big > complex thing called a backend and it needs to talk to that, you get me?" - > which we then illustrate thats actually the easiest part, and then once they > overcome that, its back to the UI and suddenly they are seeing visions of > how data intertwines to formulate this "great view" - thus enter an > emotional interface. > > Price? at this point if you sold them on the fact that you could put a FLEX > UI on anything they have behind the scenes and they have 100% total control > over the UI, price becomes a secondary point. The key to selling FLEX is, > don't tell them its FLEX. Say "Unified View"..... if they ask technically > whats going on, tell them, but don't try and sound like a Pro-Flash > Salesman... Flash still needs more exposure to those who don't know what > Macromedia does fully and it sadly gets coupled a lot with the "Skip Intro" > or "spank the monkey" gimmicks. > > > > > So when trying to sell to management the sexy $300K Flex solution vs the > not as sexy $15K CF solution which gets the job done - you have to account > for at least a $285Kdifference. Because the opportunity cost is that $285K > could have bought you 3 or 4 more developers for that year and double your > development capacity which could have resulted in a bunch more apps that > save or make money that aren't addressed for that year. > > Yeah but for every war story like this, i could produce more proactive > ones. The ability to remove MS Access from a company alone is something a > lot of IT Directors will be willing to knife someone for. FLEX has a lot > more on the table then just pretty UI, it just needs better shaping.. > > Bla bla Bla... $300K is a TOUGH sell even for Enterprises with the deepest > of pockets, and it can be done obviously, but 'dirt cheap' in my humble > opinion is understanding it a weeeee bit. :) > > Depends on context i guess, for me seeing the disparate nightmares that > exist its dddddddirt cheap...for others its expensive.. I've had to hats on, > i've walked in their hand on heart and swore "Buy flex it saves money" but > then forgot that my co-developers couldn't bothered learning stuff and kept > reverting back to HTML because it was safe... Its a hard sell if all you > have is one small POC style app on the workload...yet if you have a much > bigger prize, it comes in under budget. > > > -- > Regards, > Scott Barnes > http://www.mossyblog.com > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Web site design development Computer software development Software design > and development > Macromedia flex Software development best practice > > ________________________________ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ________________________________ > -- Niklas Richardson Prismix Ltd Flex and ColdFusion Experts! ------------------------ Yahoo! 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