Does real Java compile into machine specific code or does it depend on emulator/interpreter etc.? This is the problem I have with such languages. Its hard to get all the platform developers to produce a non-flaky emulator/interpreter/virtual machine that's consistent across all platforms. Add the endless tweaking and upgrades etc. that they do with JAVA and nobody's going to keep up They often have there own development issues that detract from the effort of meeting JAVA specs. And I as I pointed out greedy or egotistical or incompetent wankers often make the unilateral decision to stop supporting this or that feature. Or worse do such a genius tweak their positive everybody will adapt and agree to. SQL was like this in the early days. Its still got such problems but better now.
Just try not be the wankers I describe people. Do your best to write solid (non-flaky) apps and choose your tools very carefully! Its not as easy as all the "geniuses" like to think and you can waste half your career with crappy tools while mostly just annoying and pissing off your potential endusers. Adobe's Player and Reader are prime examples of crappy flaky slow code. Their crap takes as much time to execute on a 3 GHz Pentium as is it did on a 12 Mhz 286. The Reader's file format hasn't changed all that much in 20 years. Can't understand why it takes so long to unwind the files with modern gear???? Wankers! They also seem to use a proprietary compressor for the install files. It doesn't pack the files anymore than Zip or the other public packed formats and takes way longer to unwind, CB On 4/24/14, Tom Ehlert <t...@drivesnapshot.de> wrote: > Hi, > > a) please don't mix Java and Javascript. this is not even apples and > oranges > > b) this list is intended to discuss FreeDOS developer related issues. I > don't > see how Java, Javascript, Os/2, ... fit into this categorie > > c) there are MANY other mailing list to post you general feelings > about java, programming, and the kitchen sink. not his one please. > > > Tom > > am 24. April 2014 um 19:25 schrieben Sie: > >> Hi, > >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Charles Belhumeur >> <chbelhumeur2...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Experience has given me a preference for low-level machine compilable >>> languages Assembler and like the various flavors of C. > >> Most other popular language implementations are written in C. (Usually >> it's loosely C99 + POSIX + extensions, due to heavy *nix bias. Well, >> you've gotta start somewhere.) From that alone, you could say, "C is >> good enough for everything". Or you could say, "It's so weak, it has >> to be extended." The simple truth is that everybody's needs are >> different. > >> But in particular, most people aren't developers, and most OSes don't >> come with any compilers (installed) by default. Thus, for simple tasks >> (that aren't speed intensive), you're usually given some kind of >> interpreter, e.g. sh or awk or bc or rexx or qbasic or cmd or >> powershell or similar. After all, there's no advantage to writing >> tedious boilerplate just to calculate a few numbers or manipulate a >> text file or run several programs in batch style. > >>> I don't like languages like JAVA that ride a non-machine specific >>> protocol >>> and ride atop emulators or interpreters on top a browser on top an OS on >>> top >>> sophisticated hardware. > >> They say the JVM was inspired by Pascal p-code. It's meant to be >> portable. You compile once, and then all you need is to port the >> interpreter in order to run anywhere. If you make the interpreter fast >> (or have a JIT), then speed won't be an issue. And BTW, I think the >> Hotspot VM is written in C++. It's really not much different from a >> compiler that internally translates to intermediate code before making >> that into machine-specific code to run natively. > >> Of course going directly to machine code is maybe faster overall, but >> machine code is not portable. (Granted, portability is a ruse, almost >> nobody even pretends to care about lesser OSes and arches, only the >> billion-dollar platforms, which IMO defeats the point.) > >>> They tend to be problematic, flaky, because >>> you don't know what all the routines you ride are doing or if they're >>> reliable across all implementations. > >> I don't grok Java, but even I know that there are many VMs and many >> different compilers. No, by default, you don't know how reliable they >> all are. Everything has bugs (or limitations or design flaws), that's >> unavoidable. All you can do is try to minimize it. Many language >> implementations succeed at this, but others fail. > >> IMO, I find it's best to have a clear specification for the language >> and a decent test suite. Java has both, IIRC. So, as long as those >> stay consistent with your implementation, you have at least some >> reassurance about how it will function. > >>> And the hit in performance you take riding on top all those routines >>> written by wankers really sucks compared to what you get from machine >>> specific compiled code. I spend enough time looking the hourglass >>> waiting for JAVA scripts to run as it is. I don't want to add to this >>> wank'in time wasting practice. > >> I'll admit that a modern web browser is probably 100x too complicated >> for its own good. What started out simple became a horrible behemoth. >> I don't think Javascript is necessarily the best choice for heavy-duty >> apps, but that's just my opinion (and luckily nobody cares what I >> think). But even Javascript often has a JIT these days. I too would >> rather just run something offline on my desktop than through a >> browser. But I guess there are some things you can't do without >> Javascript (and some environments where that is the most obvious >> target). > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform >> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software >> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready >> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform >> _______________________________________________ >> Freedos-devel mailing list >> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards > Tom Ehlert > +49-241-79886 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform > Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software > Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready > Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
