Steve's road-rage module could deploy a net or a powerful, but not deadly, shot of electricity and call 911 with a GPS locator. Then I wouldn't have to back up and make sure his head was flat. But wait, shouldn't this socialist value system should factor in my visceral needs as well?
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 3:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant Were I still a libertarian, I would agree. But now that I'm almost a socialist, I think it is our job to provide plastic context that allows for more freak-out than less. I'm equivocating on "job", of course. But you did it first. 8^P By flipping that road rager off, you did him a favor. By your lack of a counter freak-out, you helped him get what he needed. Good job! On 4/28/22 15:16, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I have no problem with the people that go to rave or to Dave's special house > to "lose it". They have arranged for a relatively safe context for letting > their nervous system bounce around. But it is not my job to facilitate that > experience, in general, in the wild. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 3:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant > > I like everything about that layout except the "outside the abilities". I > think those of us who "lose it" actually want to lose it ... or enjoy losing > it ... like dancing at a rave at the DJs crecendo. Some part of them knows > it's unproductive. And they don't have to be all that sociopathic, ignoring > the feelings of those around them or being all that ignorant of their > trajectory towards freak-out. They just *want* the freak-out. It feels good. > > The trick is that some of us have manners and try to adapt to context and > others don't ... or simply don't have the willingness to classify contexts > and match them with different manners/modes. The right wingers who go on and > on about "wokeness" are this way. They simply don't *want* to exhibit good > manners. The same might be true of a freaking out antifa shouting at a nazi. > > It's all about wants and (physiological) reward. What are they getting from > their chosen behavior? If they wanted to calm down, they would. > > On 4/28/22 15:03, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> My reasoning goes like this. 1) I know there is a difference between the >> things I feel and the behaviors I have that could reveal them. It is not >> a perfectly controlled thing, of course, but I have a degree of control. >> This control leads to some control of the feelings themselves. As you say, >> one can whip themselves up, but one can also calm themselves. 2) I would >> never pull one of these vehicular stunts unless it was a theatrical >> motivation for a third party to observe or I was artificially influenced by >> a high dose of testosterone, adrenaline, meth, etc. A common situation >> like low blood sugar or high caffeine wouldn't be enough. I just wouldn't >> even think about it if someone flipped me off. I might feel bad if I >> thought I had made a mistake and deserved criticism/shaming, but I wouldn't >> then thrust my car in front of another leading to who knows what outcome for >> no reason at all. >> >> I don't think thresholding is the right way to model it. It is more like >> can one estimate how cool or agitated they are and modulate the situations >> to avoid unproductive conflict. Some people I have found can't recognize >> their own degree of agitation. The flooding is going outside the abilities >> of the control system. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 2:44 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant >> >> Well, I purposefully chose to use sociopathy in this example to indicate the >> complete competency spectrum. A flood-prone sociopath *needs* to get good at >> suppressing their freak-outs. A psychopath doesn't need to suppress >> anything. There's no such thing as an ideal psychopath, of course. We're all >> a little psycho to some extent. >> >> But if you're asserting there's a difference between freak-out behavior and >> a freaked-out mental state, then we might expect the monists to come flying >> out of the woodwork with their loops on repeat. It's a social skill, a >> competence, to be able to *whip* oneself up into a state of enthusiasm ... >> or even a state of Flow. When you enter the MMA ring, you don't calm >> yourself, meditate, and relax. You whip yourself into a [controlled] >> freak-out. Explosive athletics require freaked-out mentality *and* often >> quite a bit of bit of freak-out behavior. >> >> This conception of flooding and freaking out as some sort of >> over-the-threshhold loss of control is idealistic nonsense. That's the heart >> of my claim that freak-outs aren't the problem. >> >> On 4/28/22 14:32, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> Sure, it depends whether we define a state-of-mind as the freak out, or the >>> observed behavior of the freak out. The former could happen, and no one >>> would know. And I think you are confusing sociopathy with psychopathy in >>> this example. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 2:24 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant >>> >>> But by keeping it together, you *weaken* your plausible deniability. >>> Keeping it together would give the prosecutor the ammunition to accuse you >>> of [pre]mediated murder (with [pre] in brackets because it's not >>> technically pre-mediated murder). The more cold-blooded you are, the more >>> likely we'll interpret your killing as cold-blooded murder. >>> >>> So a competent sociopath gets good at *simulating* freak-outs. Again, the >>> freak-out isn't the problem, here. Freaking out is a tool just like any >>> other. And it's rational and intelligent to use the tool deliberately. >>> >>> On 4/28/22 14:17, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> Just to clarify, I wouldn't shoot the guy because I was emotional. He was >>>> the one that experienced the freak out. In some potential circumstance, >>>> I would potentially do it for protection of my passenger, and to a lesser >>>> extent as a sort of public service, because the opportunity was given to >>>> me in the context of (plausible) self-defense. The subtler reason that >>>> excuse would be appealing would be due to the basic injustice that I was >>>> basically keeping it together and he was not, and keeping it together is >>>> work. So why should I take on the burden for adapting to lazy people? >>>> Just because I can? If we go around making special accommodations for >>>> people that don't try to keep it together, one can expect a lot more of it. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 1:49 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant >>>> >>>> Well, OK. So we can partition freak-outs into (at least) 2 types: angry vs >>>> joyous ... or whatever other false binary you choose (pro- vs anti-social >>>> perhaps). Then we argue for suppression of one but not suppression of the >>>> other? Pffft. That doesn't work. E.g. https://youtu.be/etK7e7iBJVQ You'd >>>> just end up living in a world of dead-eyed automatons. >>>> >>>> What you seem to be targeting, here, is *material* cause. Those of us who >>>> tend to flood more than others need less access to powerful tools like >>>> cars and guns. Again, it's not the freak-out that's the problem. It's the >>>> network in which the freak-out exists. >>>> >>>> On 4/28/22 13:40, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>> It's not about the manners, it's about learning to distance from >>>>> discomfort. Like continuing to press a climb up a hill on a bicycle >>>>> while the lactic acid burns your legs. >>>>> >>>>> Spend some time around someone with borderline personality disorder for a >>>>> while, you will change your mind. >>>>> >>>>> Road rage is a common example. The other day there was a bicycle that I >>>>> was approaching who wasn't going very fast, even for a bicyclist. She >>>>> did have every right to be there, and so I was also going slow to wait >>>>> for her to get around a parked car before I passed. Meanwhile, some >>>>> lunatic comes up behind us laying on his horn, oscillating from the left >>>>> side of the lane to the right trying to find a way around. Because he >>>>> went so far right, there was no way he couldn't see the bicyclist. I >>>>> don't have a lot of patience for this kind of behavior, so I indicated my >>>>> displeasure with a middle finger. This individual then roars in front of >>>>> us both and puts his car horizontally in front of mine. He gets out and >>>>> starts banging on my window to get his "catharsis". Had I determined he >>>>> was an actual threat to us, I might have pushed his car out the way with >>>>> mine (which was much larger), or had I a weapon, shot him. F*ck his >>>>> catharsis, he can share the minor frustration of daily life with the rest >>>>> of us, and in silence please. There is no benefit in his freak out, it >>>>> was basically a criminal act as far as I was concerned. >>>>> >>>>> There are situations which a rant is truly righteous, but I have found >>>>> mostly no one cares about that. Usually this discovery comes at some >>>>> personal or professional cost. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 1:20 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A million year old driving assistant >>>>> >>>>> "This is your last free article." [baaaaahhhhhhhh] Now what am I >>>>> gonna read this weekend!?!? Damn you! [stomp][stomp][stomp] >>>>> >>>>> Of course, I disagree completely with the point being made, there. The >>>>> freak-out improves relationships and rationality, smooths over >>>>> difficulties in the real world, and has all sorts of narrative-breaking, >>>>> cathartic benefits. In the same way that convictions to ideologies foster >>>>> conservatism and hamper progress, the suppression of one's freak-outs >>>>> amounts to rejecting a large array of measures and indicators one might >>>>> ordinarily use to understand the world. The problem isn't the freak-out. >>>>> The problem is a lack of tolerance *for* freak-outs. It's the repressed >>>>> Victorians running around complaining about the lack of manners and >>>>> decorum around them. >>>>> >>>>> Please. Don't repress your freak-outs. We're tough. We can withstand your >>>>> freak-out and use it to better plan for the future. The last thing we >>>>> need is to turn into a bunch of dead-affect emotionless, freak-out-free >>>>> psychopaths. Where would stand-up comedy be without freak-outs? Where >>>>> would we get our qualia-laden *rants* from? What even is laughing if >>>>> *not* a kind of freak-out? >>>>> >>>>> I haven't had the giggles in decades. But for some reason, a group of us >>>>> were eating lunch a few weeks ago. Someone told a joke. Another someone >>>>> kept laughing. I mean, even after the topic had changed and everyone'd >>>>> moved on. This dude kept laughing. I tried to take a sip of beer and I >>>>> ended up snorting it ... just because that other dude kept laughing. I'm >>>>> allergic to barley. So when I snort beer it seriously messes me up for >>>>> about an hour or 2. Fvcking laughing. Stupid freak-out. I should have >>>>> suppressed it. >>>>> >>>>> On 4/28/22 12:53, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>> “Emotional flooding might have helped your Pleistocene ancestors >>>>>> survive, but it is maladapted to most modern interactions.” >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage- >>>>>> e >>>>>> m >>>>>> o >>>>>> t >>>>>> ions-and-reactions/629692/ >>>>>> <https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2022/04/how-to-manage >>>>>> - >>>>>> e >>>>>> m >>>>>> o >>>>>> tions-and-reactions/629692/> >>>>> -- Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . 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