Chris, Natalia here, You've done it again. Put whole sections of personal projections into my reply. Indulge me one last time, as I will with you. Follow the money.
----- Original Message ----- From: Christoph Reuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] Possible U.S. cutbacks? > Natalia (or Darryl?) wrote: > > Chris, review carefully this time, > > If only you would too. > > > > You may claim to be addiction free, but I would > > warrant you are not able to recognize them. Even milk can be addictive, or > > evil Soya products or body building foods. Any food allergy can be > > indicative of addiction, just as any strong desire for certain types of > > food. Potatoes allergies and Vodka cravings go hand in hand. > > So sorry to disappoint you that I don't have any of these "addictions"/ > allergies. > $$$$$$ I would never expect you to be aware of them. We usually are not. That's part of growing up. I notice you avoided cuttiing and pasting the rest of the list of possible addictions: relationships, sex, internet. I might offer here that addictive relationships are especially difficult to uncover. Endorphines from excersize are addictive too. Extreme workouts like you experience can really ruin your muscles when you get a little older. Just ask Nureyev (now deceased--but you can try)--or any dancer, any pro athlete for that matter. Been there, done that. I still excersize, but less taxingly. > > > Let's be clear on another important point. I have never ever condoned or > > promoted the use of pot, coffee, or any other substance to anyone in either > > a professional capacity, as a volunteer, or in my personal life. > > Now this sounds much better. > > > > The > > clientele with whom I worked were all very troubled people, who had without > > exception suffered extreme mental, physical and sexual abuse. Almost all > > suffered not so coincidentally from schizophrenia, some from bi-polar > > disorders and so on. This was not a centre for addiction but a healing art > > facility, and no therapy was conducted other than by the individual in their > > personal processes that developed from doing the art. > > That kind of (non-)"treatment" is a tragic waste of precious time. These > patients need thorough changes of diet and active supplementation with > nutrients they're deficient in. > $$$$$$Chris, you're being judgemental and obviously have little notion of how offensive that sounds or would sound to the hundreds of thousands who participate in these and similar programs. You are saying that creativity is not healing. You are saying there is nothing healing about friendship, opening up to people, completing a task, or self-esteem. Are you saying self-expression is meaningless to a patient who has experienced pain and brutality most of their life? I've got big news for you Chris, the doctors and shrinks aren't doing it for these people; psychologists do far more, yet few get off the system. But more to the point, you cannot force anyone to take supplements and order a change of diet on anyone, and you would readily be sued if you ever tried if working in a professional capacity. Further, you can't force anything on anyone anyway, no matter how wonderful it may be. Diet and supplementation therapy are not the only answer for emotional problems. You've little grasp on what mental health issues are about, but I'll willingly throw you a bone. Think abuse. Compound that most often with a gene for propensity towards schizophrenia, for example. The brain pathways developed over an extensive period of time and pain will be abnormal, and the neural routes are not likely going to change from diet alone. This takes new information being learned by the individual that helps them to cope with life and the uncomfortable states in which they find themselves. Your suggestion, though I realize has helped many people, does little to address the reasons the scales were tipped for these people. That is what you should be uncovering here. Root causes are abuse, poverty, power-over, humiliation, shame, violence and such. Good diet isn't going to address multiple rapes since infanthood that results in Multiple personality disorder. It cannot take the pain away. Not to the self-abuser. Creativity, sharing, self-expression, accomplishment, these work. Having your accomplishments acknowledged, knowing that you're not alone. I've seen it work and you clearly have never bothered to find out. This is just another aspect of the stigma that Consumers/Survivors suffer. Narrow-minded people who think they have all the answers. > > > This centre continues to give meaning to > > people's lives without any lectures from anyone on addiction or any other > > problems. > > Do you want to entertain them in the short run or do you want to heal them ? > What you call "healing art" is at best tinkering with symptoms. > > $$$$$$$Chris, if you've read what I have to say, you will realize you are so far out of line it isn't funny. You have no right to make that call for others, and you have no education on the subject beyond what you have gleaned from a few examples of success out of a seminar or two on health. Perhaps you perform colonics or sell health products, I don't really care. You do not have all the answers, nor do you understand the value of creativity. > > Below you are continuing to say that I think drugs should be legalized. This > > is reading what you want to use from your soap box, and not concentrating > > too well either, I must add. I feel that marijuana and hashish should be > > legalized, as should hemp production. I never said that anything else should > > be legalized, though I think there are probably exceptions. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > If you can concentrate a bit, maybe you can finally make up your mind on > which drugs you want to legalize and which not. But it's not all that > important where you draw the line. Whether you legalize all drugs or > "only" marijuana and hashish and "exceptions", you'll end up with vast > increases in consumption and addiction that would soon get out of control, > and do irreversible and vast damage to public health. So that strawman > is just that too. > > $$$$$$By exceptions I meant some that one could come up with that are relatively harmless that I am unaware of. I can't think of any, but some list members may know of plenty. The significant statement was that I think hard drugs should be illegal, but once again you didn't cut and paste that portion. You are wrong about even hard drugs being vastly damaging to public health. Numbers off-hand in the U.S. alone, which are pretty high comparitively, are something like less than 20,000 deaths annually for drugs, almost exclusively heroine or amphetamines. None for THC, though it would be unlikely that a few were not related due to possible heart failure from deep inhalation. However, domestic abuse deaths would make that figure pale quickly, suicide too. Deaths from prescription drugs are in the hundred thousands, Chris. Drunk driving, cancer from tobacco, and alcohol related deaths--millions. Pollution--Six Billion worldwide. Things are not anymore out of control than the population has expanded where illegal drugs are concerned, but all other epidemics have sky-rocketted. Get your head out of the sand. > > I understand how you feel that one life screwed up by adverse reactions to > > THC is too many, but your passion might be better focused on creative ways > > to help kids get back into the stream of life. You don't seem to be crying > > for the zillions put on Prozac or Ritalin. Alcohol and tobacco kill > > millions, yet there are comparatively few deaths that are directly related > > to hard drugs, and almost none directly related to THC. Of course you are > > free to choose what you feel is the greater "evil", but don't you think that > > given the limited resources and abilities that law enforcement possesses, > > their time would be far better spent getting the serious pushers? And > > include in that category physicians and pharmaceutical industries, McDeath, > > Nike and the like! > > As I said many times in this thread, my approach is to resolve the problem > of addictions at the root. This would make Prozac and Ritalin unnecessary > and put the "serious pushers" out of business, much more thoroughly than > your approach or that of any other drug-legalization proponent on this list. > All you have offered is tinkering with symptoms and even wasting time with > non-treatments you misnomed "healing". > > $$$$$$Your pejorative approach and flawed assessment of what healing is only undoes your own healing. Do you honestly know nothing about elementary psychology? You haven't made a single connection to the roots of the problem. Change in brain chemistry cannot undo all pain. All pain is not chemical. It's emotional usually from a very early age. People have to unlearn what they were taught badly. Diet only addresses physical problems. If you investigated a little deeper you'd learn that there are degrees of mental illness, that there are different types, and most helped by diet alone would more likely be border-line to schizoid-type, not usually too far gone. Where it might be helpful, what are you going to do, hold them down to take all this stuff? Offer it for free and most wouldn't bother. You can't force Zinc or B's on everyone, some have adverse reactions. Some will do well on prescription drugs. Would you enjoy converting someone to your beliefs, only to have a suicide on your hands despite a graduation process being employed? People have to arrive at their own decisions about what is best for them. You cannot dictate to them your latest healing trends. Addressing real root problems is societal in scope as well as being a highly personal journey. > > By the way, no drug offered by pharmaceuticals addresses cause either. It's > > always about managing symptoms. > > Congrats for proving that you didn't grasp my comments. You should smoke > less pot and try to improve your health. $$$$$$Can't you cut and paste everything relavent? Anyway, all of the above again, Chris. I never said I smoked pot, and I'll warrant my knowledge of how to improve my health far exceeds your own. I've got years of avid up-to-date alternative healthcare reading over you, and I take it, as well as psychological and spiritual health, very seriously. There is a lot of info out there, and I do not disagree that improved nutrition would be a big plus, but one could recommend zapping or religion or what have you. It's still not going to address the mind that wants to see the world in the way it is used to without the accompanying pain. Later, Natalia > > Chris > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword > "igve". > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
