I'm struck by this statement of Mike's: > > If you say that it is part of the underlying logic of which they are a > > primary beneficiary, I think its an easier argument to make and accept.
It seems to me that we all, as individuals (including Chris's predators), only gradually become aware of "systemic" effects and then convergent systemic effects. This is what Aurelio Peccei, founder of the Club of Rome, was tryng to bring to our attention in identifying the "problematique" created by converging global problems. It is also why he said, "To seek distinct, discrete solutions for individual parts of this 'problematique,' as much of human society continues to try to do, is quite evidently a waste of effort." (Aurelio Peccei in Aurelio Peccei and Daisaku Ikeda, Before it is Too Late, Kodansha International, Tokyo 1984. p.14. ) The question then becomes who is acting knowingly at a systems level which is counterproductive of (let's say), producing human well-being. The issue may be twofold -- increasing everyone's awareness of systemic effects and, where the net result of action at one level benefits oneself but harms others, asking whether the actor is acting in ignorance of that or "in willful ignorance." "Willful ignorance" then becomes the issue in judging predators and also politicians and even our own daily actions. I'm finding the concept helpful and am grateful to a friend for recently sharpening my attention to it. I suspect the phrase could become useful in such conversation as are proceeding at the moment on FW. It might be applied not only to perceived predators. Is Bill Gates is doing what Chris alleges -- and if what Chris alleges is how the systemic effects work -- then is Bill aware of this? (Mike I think was prepared to cut him some slack.but upons the door to the question of who is responsible for the "underlying logic" and whether we're all being rather willfully ignorant of this, cf. Pecciei). IThe conce[t can be useful not only in respect to personal assessments of oneself and others but also in the courts where it is a known criterion. Meanwhile may the charming conversation between Chris and Steve thrive while the rest of us chime in. If only one of them weren't so right and the other so wrong! Remind me, which one is whch? <grin> Gail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christoph Reuss" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] semantics > Mike wrote: >> Are you saying that this is a conscious conspiracy on the part of the >> billionaires/predators... It's hard to reconcile that with the >> Gates/Buffet >> zillions currently going into anti-Malaria/sustainable agriculture... > > Their "anti-Malaria" program is basically a sales pitch for pesticides > and drugs. Even the Gates foundation website admits that the mosquitos > are getting resistant to these chemicals. What remains is the profits > of Big Pharma (of which the billionaires own stocks) and the toxins in > the homes and bodies of Africans. > > Sustainable agriculture?? Things like genetic tinkering crops which are > designed to destroy subsistence farming and force indebted farmers to > sell their kidney... > > You see, taking a closer look, this "philanthropy" is as real as M$ > advertising claims. Gates only wants the best for users, ya know!! > > >> If you say that it is part of the underlying logic of which they are a >> primary beneficiary, I think its an easier argument to make and accept. > > The feedback loop is not to be disregarded. > > >> Whether ZPG is necessary--well, maybe not in Switzerland >> where systems run like clockwork and the people are very accommodating >> and >> responsive to those systems, but having just spent time in >> Dhaka/Bangladesh >> where many systems hardly work at all and predator logic is rampant doing >> what needs to be done to achieve population stability is an absolute >> necessity if any kind of virtuous circles/systems are going to be allowed >> to >> emerge. > > I think Steve bets on doom also in the developed world, incl. Switzerland > and America, even in countries with (native) repro rates as low as > 1.0-1.5. > Hence his preparations for defending his son's orchard with the rifle > ablaze > against the hungry masses... After all, we're all cave men, so doom is > just > around the corner! "Cave homo!" in Latin, so to speak. ;-} > > Chris > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the > keyword > "igve". > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
