Wil, Well put. I didn't mean to imply that ZF wasn't enterprise software - I most certainly think it is (for all the reasons you enumerated and more)! As long as you're truly using the word "enterprise" to speak to enterprise customers, then I think it's perfectly fine to use the word. I just don't like when it's used as a catch-all phrase with no actual meaning behind it.
I hear you about "web 2.0" - you need to have a certain amount of buzzword compliance these days. I was considering putting a "buzzword compliance" page on our website where potential clients can go to see if we do all the cool things they read about in Wired Magazine ;-) Like I said before, I don't think there's anything wrong with your current slogan but this has been an interesting thread non-the-less! On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Wil Sinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, 'enterprise' to me has a very specific meaning that is captured > well in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software. > > That said, note the 'criticism' section at the bottom of the entry, which > reflects your point well. I believe that's the first time I've seen a > criticism section in Wikipedia for a single word. J > > The idea is with features like LDAP and SOAP (stay tuned on this one), ZF > is perfect for building enterprise software. I see this as one of our sweet > spots among PHP frameworks, and it certainly makes for an important part of > our user base as far as Zend is concerned. I think it's fair to say that we > directly target enterprise-sized companies in our marketing. But you might > be surprised how many ZF users actually work in 'enterprise-size' companies. > For whatever reason, they seem to have disproportionate representation on > the lists, but I don't think that's necessarily uncommon for open source > projects that are used in the enterprise. > > You'll see 'Web 2.0' come up in our marketing; it would be hard for us not > to use it in today's web dev env. But I have specifically asked that we > avoid the term 'agile' to describe anything even remotely related to > development methodology since I'm a BIG agile methodology fan, and I don't > feel our development methodology on this project could currently be > classified as 'agile'. And, AFAIK, there is nothing that we do in our > codebase or docs to facilitate agile methodologies beyond just being a great > framework to use in such an environment. J In the broader sense of the > term, ZF is truly more agile than other frameworks in that we endeavor to > try to exhaustively gather and respond as quickly as possible to our users' > needs. I would say 'agile' is one of the most loaded terms in our current > web dev lexicon. > > I hope this discussion isn't wearing thin for those who come to this list > looking for a more technical perspective. I happen to think these issues are > very important and will have a large impact on all ZF users as we drive more > adoption. > > > > ,Wil > > > > *From:* Bradley Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:34 PM > *To:* Joó Ádám > *Cc:* Eric Marden; [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [fw-general] Simplicity Meets Power and not Simplicity, > Meets Power > > > > Ugh, what the heck is the word > enterprise<http://terrychay.com/blog/article/enterprise-scalability.shtml>suppose > to mean in this context, anyways? I'd attempt to actively avoid the > following buzzwords, especially in slogans: > > - enterprise > - web 2.0 > - agile (this one isn't *quite* as bad as it has a more clear > definition) > > These buzzwords can mean many things to different people so don't really > communicate much when used in a slogan. With enterprise, for example, I > doubt the majority of ZF users in-fact work in an enterprise-size company. > "Enterprises" may, in fact, be the target market for the *commercial* end > of ZF. However, we have a vague notion that if it's for "enterprise" it must > be good. But, since we don't work for an enterprise-size company, we don't > really know what those aspects are so not much is really communicated here > other than, "it's good" which doesn't carry much substance. In other words, > if your truly saying "enterprise" to *directly* target actual > enterprise-size companies, that's fine. But it comes across more as > targeting those of us who don't work at an enterprise-size company but think > that it must be good if it's good for enterprises. I think there are a lot > of great things to be said about ZF that are more substantive. > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Joó Ádám <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My favourite is Enterprise-strength PHP. > > > Regards, > Ádám > > > > > -- > Bradley Holt > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Bradley Holt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
