Hi Thomas, I have had no trouble with XAudio2. That coupled with very low-level input handling using the Win32 API made for some awesome times. Still, the disadvantage to such low-level work (I count XAudio2 as relatively low-level too), is that it takes more work to get things done - including more evaluation of your code to make sure it won't crash at run-time. And the difference inr esponsiveness isn't too big anyway. We're talking milliseconds here. The one thing I did like about those components is that it was mostly event-driven. I'm not a big fan of polling for input. Unfortunately, I've read that Microsoft dropped XNA, so I wouldn't be surprised if XAudio2 is going too. That's two abandoned audio systems in five years.
And really, OpenAL isn't so bad. There are devices with hardware support (though I'm disabling that to ensure a uniform user experience). And with the rise of Steam, being able to target Linux is a good thing. Then there is the iOS thing, they use OpenAL too. Joal is a great option for Java developers. For iOS there is the excellent Object-AL. Sadly Joal seems to have some issues acquiring the soundcard at times, but that's probably partly the fault of Windows and its drivers. It's also a bit of a resource hog, it does a lot of memory copying that more low-level APIs avoid. But hey, it does save you some resource managing. DirectSound was great, and it's cool that it still works on modern systems, but just like with VB6 I'd strongly suggest new developers skip it altogether. As you said the 3D part is very much broken unless you do your own tweaking (and even then), and to be fair the API really isn't that easy to use compared to XAudio2 or OpenAL. The one nice thing is that you can easily script against it, but that's not too important for serious game developers. Cheers, Davy -----Original Message----- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 13:18 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] BGT, Mac and More Hi Davy, Well, the problem with XAudio2 is that a number of developers have reported it is buggy. Philip was working on a version of BGT that uses XAudio2, and found out it caused some instabilities in BGT and removed XAudio2 support for the time being. So that is why BGT does not presently support XAudio2. However, I agree for a multi-platform game there is no better option than OpenAL. You can use Joal for Java or write your own custom wrapper for the library for a decent cross-platform audio library that works on Mac, Linux, and Windows. Truth be told I am looking at using OpenAL as a replacement for DirectSound on Windows anyway just because the 3d audio is broken big time on DirectSound in Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1. Clearly I need something else other than DirectSound, and XAudio2 is rather up in the air at this point. As far as license agreement stopping someone from reverse engineering code I just can not go with that option. To me that is like someone intentionally leaving their front door unlocked and than hanging a sign outside saying "do not enter." A person who respects you as a developer, has some decency, obviously won't reverse your code or pirate your software. However, sad to say a lot of people will not and it never hurts to add a few extra layers of security to keep the amateur wannabe crackers out of your code. At the same time I am no fan boy of a lot of the security methods used out there to secure and license software. As you say anything can be cracked, stolen, etc by the right person so adding an insane amount of security won't work. What I feel is that there has to be a fair balance between reasonable security to keep amateur wannabe crackers out while not being intrusive to legitimate customers. As you yourself said you should stop trying to create a false sense of security as nothing you try or do is perfect. The only thing you or I can do as developers is make a game good enough that people will want to buy it to own it, offer content only available to legitimate customers, and keep the cost reasonable so you make a decent income from it but not so high that people will want to turn to pirating to get it. Cheers! On 12/13/13, Davy Kager <m...@davykager.nl> wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, it definitely seems that <some language> coupled with OpenAL is > the way to go. For a Windows-only game I'd use XAudio2 (which BGT > doesn't do either), but for a multi-platform game OpenAL has a lot to > offer inspite of its quirks. It makes transitioning to iOS easier as > well, unless you go and use the Papa Engine for full binaural audio in > your iOS games. But the Papa Engine and BGT aren't free, which I > appreciate can be a bit of a problem for developers just starting out. > If you pay those $100 for BGT or your Apple iOS developer account you > practically have to come up with something that sells well in order to make > it, as you say, financially viable. > > The cross-platform applications I have developed so far worked > reasonably well on Mac, although I never made a serious effort to make > the Mac version as streamlined as the Windows version since demand was > low. This seems to be rapidly changing now. > So yes, coding your own engine in Java or C++ is a lot more work than > licensing BGT and using that, but I feel the benefits justify that > decision (provided you have the time and resources to take on such a project). > > Java's lack of security certainly stings. It's understandable if you > look at Java's history and intended use, but still... On the other > hand, the license agreement should legally stop any legitimate user > from prying. Of course enforcing a license agreement is a bit of a > toughy for indie developers. But even so, if you have an awesome > online back-end to your game, i.e. the bazaar in Entombed, users would > still have a good reason to buy the real thing. Not to mention the > whole gratitude bit: I took the time to develop for a niche market, so saying > thanks by pirating isn't very nice. > The harsh truth is that any software can be pirated if the right > people get their hands on it. > I'm especially concerned about my game's audio being stolen, partly > because I want my audio to be at least somewhat unique and partly > because it might get me into a legal corner if some kid steals my > audio and puts it up somewhere. But then again, no encryption is > going to be perfect. Java is the extreme example. You can't properly > hide your decryption key in code, and externalizing it makes it even > easier for someone to do the decryption themselves. You could > definitely store the key on a remote server and download it everytime > the game is started, but then your players can't use the game while > offline. You could also code your own implementation of AES and push > your class files through an obfuscator. That'd probably stop most > people, but it's very ugly indeed. So Java is really bad. Except > that memory dumping a BGT game also spills a lot of "interesting" > data. So yes, it securely stores sound data on disk, but it has to be > played back at some point. I guess you'd just have to make your game > good enough that people are willing to pay for it, much like true fans of a > pop star will still buy their songs instead of downloading them illegally. > Oh, and obviously the more encryption runs you put in, the slower your > game is going to be. And in the end, a determined hacker can still > get in. I think I have to watch myself and stop trying to create a > fake feeling of security. That doesn't mean I like how people can > decompile my classes, though. I suppose I have to set priorities: > rapid development or better pseudo-security. > > Cheers, > Davy > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
