Kevin Emmerich wrote:
> I can see a need for education as many do not research caring for pets, but
> this also applies to cats, dogs, parrots etc............
Yep, keeps us busy. Lets face it though - when was the last time you saw a dog
with MBD? Not for nothing - what percentage of dogs die each year from owner
inexperience? Heck - cats would be even lower!
> There seem to be safety issues with all of these pets as well.
No doubt - dog bites are particularly nasty, and often underated as a public
health problem IMHO.
> We have always supported captive breeding to reduce the taking of very large
> numbers from the wild.
Sadly - looking at herps as a group - there are many many many times as many WC
animals than CB. With the odd exception (leopard gex and sulcatta) the reality
is the CB is really only served to keep people trying to breed these things -
and you have to get the founders from somewhere, no? Here's an analagy - only
after psittacine birds could no longer be imported did folks really get their
act together and crank out the CB chicks. Until then the average person would
still rather buy the import - why. Cost. CB will only reduce the demand for WC
in groups like this - where people know the value of getting clean animals
habituated to captivity.
> I think HSUS has gone overboard to single out
> reptiles.
I agree - but think about why they did it.
> I find the people on this forum to be among the most responsible
> herp keepers as well as being dedicated to the conservation of wild
> populations.
But - remember that this is a very special subset of the herp keeping
population. This group is not representative of the average lizard/snake or
turtle owner. The general herp keeping public is light years behind this group.
> There are aspects we would just not know about some species of
> reptiles unless we observe them in captivity.
This is true - though one might argue that everything observed in captivity is
artificial. Having said that the sad thing is that the mechanism for sharing
what is learned from all of these observations made by advanced hobbiests and
breeders is rarely if ever conveyed in a meaningful way to the masses. True,
some is (look at Lyles book as an example of getting the good word out), but the
reality is that there are few that are trained to make the most of such
observations, and lets face it - almost every breeder has a species or two
where he/she killed a fair number of animals while "working with them" to get it
right. And if folks like these listers are occasionally having problems - think
about John Q. Public. The reality is that private herpetoculture has not
published much info relative to the sheer numbers of animals that have died for
the information you are suggesting has been gleened. No IACUC on the planet
would consider the losses worth the info gained.
> It is also foolish to suggest that reptiles do not make good pets. We are
> biologists who own 8 captive lizards. ...all of which make GREAT pets!
Notice that you are biologists. For most people the reality is that they do not
have the inclination or expertise to create the often rather sophisticated
setups that these animals require. You are special, and for you I agree that
lizards make great pets. I am not so sure about the average person. I figure
that any animal that is generally killed within 1 year of acquisition - and
again, the 90% figure is very likely correct, is not a good pet. God for you,
but not good for the average keeper, or the average lizard.
> We look forward to getting more pet lizards of many genera in the future
> while we study wild ones in their habitat.
An you are the kind of people that should have them - but let me ask you this:
If it took 9 lizards dying in the hands of the inexperienced so that you could
have more of the pets you obviously do care about - would it be worth it? Or
let me put it another way. you take yours home - it lives the good life, how
though do you feel about the other 9 from that shipment? Odds are they didn't
last a year.
no flame - just playing devils advocate in an important 9to me anyhoo)
discussion,
Keith
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