I second. The problem is aggression and trying to impose one's agenda,
and whether you are male, female, M2F transgender or F2M transgender,
you can be aggressive and disruptive. (And I've been on a couple all
women lists over the years where M2F transgenders were very aggressive,
condescending and disruptive.) I don't see any agreement with Ms. Hale's
proposal and I think we need to drop it.
On 3/16/2011 7:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
I completely agree with Fluffy.
_____
/Béria Lima/
Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
(351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
estamos a fazer./
2011/3/16 ChaoticFluffy <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
I also don't have a problem with Erik's POV in particular. My
views on this topic are basically that:
1) Yes, some of the men here are being excessively strident and
dismissive in a lot of cases
2) Yes, I feel less inclined to speak my mind because I know that
I'm going to have to defend every point I make from three or four
men telling me how it's not a problem
3) No, I don't think the solution is to fork the list. We have to
function with men onwiki, there's no reason to kick them off here
4) I'm not sure how moderation could be used effectively other
than to have moderators speak to people who are overly dismissive.
Having a moderator approve all posts seems excessive, but I would
support, say, an X-strikes-you're-out policy regarding belittling
or dismissive behavior
5) I don't think it's constructive to require the men to justify
themselves to us or the list. If they're here, they're here
because they want to work on the gender gap. That said...
6) I don't know how many more ways we women can tell you guys that
some of you are coming across as obnoxious. I'm sorry if that
offends you (mostly because I'm a woman and I've been trained to
be sorry if I offend people, hey look how that works), but YOU
ARE. Please accept that this is happening, it's making the women
unhappy, and we'd like you to think before you speak from now on.
7) Please do NOT immediately protest that you feel like the mean
feminist women are trying to oppress you by telling you all this.
Feel like we're snap-judging your statements? Feel like we're
treating you as your gender rather than yourself, and unfairly so?
Feel like we're just not listening to the points you're trying to
make? WELCOME TO OUR WORLD AS WOMEN.
-Fluff
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