Morgan Delagrange wrote:
>
> Hi Ceki,
>
> I don't think many of is are terribly concerned about
> the constitution of the PMC, as long as each
> subproject
> has at least some representation. However, maybe some
> of us really are concerned about that.
>
> More important to me is what _subprojects_ are under
> the Jakarta umbrella, not what committee members. To
> me, it seems that placing all Java server-related
> subprojects together invigorates the Jakarta project
> and reduces duplication of effort.
Agreed. And makes each sub-project visible to a wider audience.
> Placing
> Servlet-related projects in one place and other
> server-related projects in another place seems to
> invite too many implementations of the same idea,
> because the developers don't interface with one
> another.
Agree
>
> As far as other organizational issues (e.g. whether
> other projects like Ant and ORO should be worked into
> the charter somehow), I'm mainly agnostic.
I'm inclined to think it would be better to keep all the Apache projects
in Java together, for the same reasons as you mention above. But I'd be
happy so long as all the server ones are together.
Charles
>
> -M
>
> --- Ceki Glc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I quickly read the "Board of Directors Meeting
> > Minutes" of 16 September 1999. The minutes indeed
> > link Java Servlet software to Jakarta's charter. but
> > isn't this just a technicality?
> >
> > What would be gained by defining a new PMC?
> > Moreover, I thought that java.apache.org was going
> > to be merged into jakarta. This is at least what
> > http://java.apache.org/ says. (Jon confirmed this in
> > an earlier note.)
> >
> > What would be gained by refining the charter of
> > Jakarta and pruning projects? Is it a politically
> > correct way of creating a new PMC? On a related
> > note, what does the PMC actually do? OK, it
> > answerable to the Apache Board but what does that
> > mean on a day to day (or meeting to meeting) basis?
> > What decisions does the PMC take? In particluar, are
> > those decisions microscopic or macroscopic? Why
> > should I care (as a mere committer) who is on the
> > PMC? :-)
> >
> > I apologize in advance if these questions have been
> > already asked/answered. Ceki
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:33 06.02.2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >--- Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> On 2/6/2001 at 11:26 AM Delagrange, Morgan wrote:
> > >> >Right, but the Jakarta PMC chairman objects to
> > that
> > >> definition.
> > >>
> > >> I'm not sure if Sam Ruby has actually "objected"
> > or
> > >> not. It is evident
> > >> that Roy Fielding has objected to the scope of
> > the
> > >> Jakarta Project. As
> > >> it stands, the current mission given on the Web
> > site
> > >> is technically
> > >> incorrect. If we want a broader scope, it's
> > obvious
> > >> that the ASF will
> > >> require a board resolution to put things right.
> > >
> > > From Sam's comments, it seems pretty clear that
> > he'd
> > >rather expand the scope than start pruning
> > >subprojects.
> > >
> > >> >If you make the definition of Jakarta this
> > >> restrictive
> > >>
> > >> Jakarta's charter is * already * that restricted.
> > >> The contract between
> > >> the ASF and the Jakarta PMC reads that Jakarta is
> > >> "charged with the
> > >> creation and maintenance of open-source Java
> > >> Servlet-related software
> > >> for distribution at no charge to the public."
> > >
> > >Agreed, many Jakarta projects are currently out of
> > >scope according to the current charter.
> > >
> > >> As you pointed out, the Jakarta PMC has exceed
> > its
> > >> original charter.
> > >> The ASF board chairman has raised an exception,
> > and
> > >> presented two
> > >> alternatives: (1) A broader charter or (2) More
> > >> PMCs.
> > >>
> > >> Some people seem to like the idea of a broader
> > >> charter. Other people
> > >> have said they don't. I'm just suggesting that as
> > a
> > >> followup to Roy's
> > >> suggestion (2) that we consider whether
> > chartering
> > >> Java-Apache for the
> > >> out-of-scope projects makes any sense.
> > >
> > >Thanks to Jon for clarifying the deprecation of the
> > >java.apache.org domain. The current Jakarta site
> > >states:
> > >
> > > The older Java Apache Project will have its
> > > projects merged into the Jakarta Project
> > > in the near future (no set date). For more
> > > information please see the announcement on that
> > > website.
> > >
> > >If this is still the case, fine. If not, we need a
> > >new plan of action, since clearly java.apache.org
> > >needs to go away.
> > >
> > >> >Really, if you limit the scope of the Jakarta
> > >> project to Servlet-based
> > >> >technologies, the list of in-scope projects is
> > very
> > >> short:
> > >>
> > >> But, is that a bad thing?
> > >
> > >It's too specific. See next comment.
> > >
> > >> >projects like Slide and Struts, which only deal
> > >> with servlets in part
> > >>
> > >> I can't vouch for Slide, but Struts is definately
> > >> Java Servlet-related
> > >> software.
> > >
> > >I didn't say there weren't servlet-related
> > components
> > >in Struts, I'm saying there's a lot more in Struts
> > >than servlet stuff; hence you can easily argue that
> > >Struts is not entirely in-scope. Much of Struts
> > deals
> > >with servlets, but Struts also provides frameworks
> > for
> > >XML parsing and database pooling, correct? Since
> > >these are not specifically servlet-related, they
> > would
> > >have to be removed from the project.
> > >
> > >I'm not arguing for Jakarta becoming the one giant
> > >Java project, I'm just saying that a
> > Servlet-oriented
> > >charter is too inflexible. I'd rather see a
> > charter
> > >that focuses on Java servers and related tools (and
> > I
> > >think Ant in particular may not fit, but that's
> > >another argument).
> > >
> > >- Morgan
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Morgan Delagrange
> > >Britannica.com
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great
> > prices.
> > >http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >For additional commands, e-mail:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----
> > Ceki Glc e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (preferred)
> > av. de Rumine 5 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > CH-1005 Lausanne
> > Switzerland Tel: ++41 21 351 23 15
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> =====
> Morgan Delagrange
> Britannica.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
