On 2/6/2001 at 11:33 AM Morgan Delagrange wrote:
> Much of Struts deals with servlets, but Struts also provides
frameworks for XML parsing and database pooling, correct?
Only to the extent that they simplify working with the Struts
ActionServlet, which is the core of the framework.
> I'm not arguing for Jakarta becoming the one giant Java project, I'm
just saying that a Servlet-oriented charter is too inflexible. I'd
rather see a charter that focuses on Java servers and related tools
(and I think Ant in particular may not fit, but that's another
argument).
Judging from the recent PMC minutes, the current argument does seem to
be for one giant Java project (just strike the word Servlet).
I'm a divide-and-conquer guy myself, but if simply keeping Java-Apache
up, and shuffling things around is a non-starter, then I'd say we are
back to "formalization of the subproject hierarchy" (from the PMC
minutes) along the lines of Servlet API, Templates, Development Tools,
Frameworks, Server Applications.
Though, I'm not sure what the process of "formalization" would entail.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 2/6/2001 at 11:33 AM Morgan Delagrange wrote:
>--- Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 2/6/2001 at 11:26 AM Delagrange, Morgan wrote:
>> >Right, but the Jakarta PMC chairman objects to that
>> definition.
>>
>> I'm not sure if Sam Ruby has actually "objected" or
>> not. It is evident
>> that Roy Fielding has objected to the scope of the
>> Jakarta Project. As
>> it stands, the current mission given on the Web site
>> is technically
>> incorrect. If we want a broader scope, it's obvious
>> that the ASF will
>> require a board resolution to put things right.
>
>>From Sam's comments, it seems pretty clear that he'd
>rather expand the scope than start pruning
>subprojects.
>
>> >If you make the definition of Jakarta this
>> restrictive
>>
>> Jakarta's charter is * already * that restricted.
>> The contract between
>> the ASF and the Jakarta PMC reads that Jakarta is
>> "charged with the
>> creation and maintenance of open-source Java
>> Servlet-related software
>> for distribution at no charge to the public."
>
>Agreed, many Jakarta projects are currently out of
>scope according to the current charter.
>
>> As you pointed out, the Jakarta PMC has exceed its
>> original charter.
>> The ASF board chairman has raised an exception, and
>> presented two
>> alternatives: (1) A broader charter or (2) More
>> PMCs.
>>
>> Some people seem to like the idea of a broader
>> charter. Other people
>> have said they don't. I'm just suggesting that as a
>> followup to Roy's
>> suggestion (2) that we consider whether chartering
>> Java-Apache for the
>> out-of-scope projects makes any sense.
>
>Thanks to Jon for clarifying the deprecation of the
>java.apache.org domain. The current Jakarta site
>states:
>
> The older Java Apache Project will have its
> projects merged into the Jakarta Project
> in the near future (no set date). For more
> information please see the announcement on that
> website.
>
>If this is still the case, fine. If not, we need a
>new plan of action, since clearly java.apache.org
>needs to go away.
>
>> >Really, if you limit the scope of the Jakarta
>> project to Servlet-based
>> >technologies, the list of in-scope projects is very
>> short:
>>
>> But, is that a bad thing?
>
>It's too specific. See next comment.
>
>> >projects like Slide and Struts, which only deal
>> with servlets in part
>>
>> I can't vouch for Slide, but Struts is definately
>> Java Servlet-related
>> software.
>
>I didn't say there weren't servlet-related components
>in Struts, I'm saying there's a lot more in Struts
>than servlet stuff; hence you can easily argue that
>Struts is not entirely in-scope. Much of Struts deals
>with servlets, but Struts also provides frameworks for
>XML parsing and database pooling, correct? Since
>these are not specifically servlet-related, they would
>have to be removed from the project.
>
>I'm not arguing for Jakarta becoming the one giant
>Java project, I'm just saying that a Servlet-oriented
>charter is too inflexible. I'd rather see a charter
>that focuses on Java servers and related tools (and I
>think Ant in particular may not fit, but that's
>another argument).
>
>- Morgan
-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel 716 425-0252; Fax 716 223-2506.
-- http://www.husted.com/about/struts/
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