> > >Andy, not everyone grew up in Texas! :) I don't eat beef anymore (you know >mad-cow disease and smallpox in the UK) > > Dern Europeans ain' speaking proper 'merican. Anyhow, just wait around and you'll catch me speaking Spanish too.
>>> >>> >>I do not think the PMC should intervene just because the others >>disagree. This looks like an issue that is totally restricted to the >>Tomcat community. I don't understand the issue. The system is working. >>. .why raise a fuss elsewhere. You have an issue with the standards and >>you've vetoed the committership. This seems to me to be exactly what is >>supposed to happen... >> >> > >Because it is the very first time that someone -1s a new committer. I've >never seen it happening, and I want more feedback from all the different >possible sources ever... > >I CCed members because I esteem the judgement and knowledge of every single >one of them and I had _very_ good feedback from them, I CCed PMC because I'm >utterly stupid and still I don't remember to use general@ for >trivial/crossproject matters (and I welcome Costin's correction in >forwarding it to the appropriate list)... > >>From general@ I want feedback as well, we're talking about it, several >people responded, so I'm trying to challenge my own -1 with comments not >only from the restricted group of Tomcat... > > Okay...thats fine. This Andy alarm was triggered because I thought you were looking for creating a more top down organization. >>> >>> >>So the system works! Good news! >> >> > >I still don't follow.... > > You veto'd. That means the system work. The standard is upheld. > > >>> >>> >>Right but it should be up to ya'll tomcatters to work out your standards >>amonst yerselves. Thats my only issue. >> >> > >Nope, because if I vote a committer in, I give him access to the Tomcat CVS >repo, but I also entitle him to vote for the friggin' next PMC, and _YOU_ my >friend, might not like my choice, right? > > Just like if we were citizens of the same country and you brought a child into the world. That doesn't mean I should have a say in the matter. As I understand it, the PMC is here to serve the needs of the different communities, not vice versa. So Its perfectly logical for the Tomcat folks to decide making someone a committer is in their best interests and then by extension granting that person those rights to vote their individiual interests as a way of further contributing to Tomcat. Philisopically this is federalism, or more closely "confederalism". > > >>> >>> >>But its up to the Tomcat community. The system works. No action is >>needed aside from that you've taken on the Tomcat list. >> >> > >Maybe for _you_, not for _me_... Being utterly stupid, completely >irresponsible, and definitely insecure, I need other people comments, not on >the particular issue of _the_guy_ in se, but on a more general issue on >_why_ I voted that way. > > My opinion (just my 2c that SHOULD not count for any more than Pier is interested) -- the system works. If you felt uncomforable with this person being a commiter, you should have voted -1. >Ok, I should have voted -1 and then raised this all stuff in a _different_ >email to general, OK OK, I foobared up once more, but you guys should be >used to it by now... > > ;-) > > >Do you realize that when you give access to someone in _your_ community, >you're opening a backdoor that entitles that person _ALSO_ to other >"privileges" and that your decision will or could, at the end, affect other >people that you don't even know? > > Yes, again, back to the you're right to breed example... Jakarta is a community of communities. The power flows bottom up. Not top down. (in general, according to my limited viewpoint of the world) > > >Worthless on the matter of making me change my vote FOR THAT PERSON >SPECIFICALLY, maybe. Worthless to the idea of a better structured and >integrated Jakarta-as-a-whole community? Hardly. > > I am against a top-down decision process in bringing in new committers. There is such a process for bringing in new projects, and thats probably the right thing to do. But I'm in no position to know what a person has done for Tomcat and whether he should get a vote in Tomcat. As for the fact that that gives him some limited status and control in the project as a whole, you're looking at that wrong in my opinion. Its Tomcat's right to grant him that power. If Tomcat is misusing that right, its up to you as a Tomcat committer with a binding vote to stop them. I think you did the right thing. >>No, you voted -1. They have a right to try and convince you to change >>you vote, but the issue is decided. >> >> > >The issue is not decided until the vote ends, and that means 3 days past the >request for vote... > > And you've voted -1. They should try to convince you otherwise, but *shrug*. > > >Just one question, have you ever voted -1 on a committer? (and not just to >you, but to every committer on this list). > > I'm a sneaky b*stard. I never propose anyone on list until I ask them offlist if he wants to be a committer. I apply the most patches and so I generally propose most of the committers (based on how bad you've inundated me with patches, I consider making you a committer a punishment for making me do too much work :-p). I have told people "no you can't be a committer" or "you can ask but I'll vote -1" before, but thats as far as it went. I have been tempted once, there was one person who I thought really should be made a committer, but I chose to abstain from the vote because I was not prepared to air out the reasons why. If I felt someone was being made a committer too quickly I certainly would do the same as you and -1 them. -Andy > Pier > >-- >[Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different >sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with >the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco] > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
