Hi, The idea of this thread became real: We released a little browser game called 'Kort' these days: * Play it here http://play.kort.ch (runs on iPhone, Androids and Chrome) * Get background info https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kort_App * Follow it on https://twitter.com/KortGame * Give feedback: www.kort.ch (and fork it - it's open source!)
Have fun! Stefan 2012/9/25 Stefan Keller <[email protected]>: > Salut Stéphane > > 2012/9/25 Stéphane Guidoin <[email protected]> wrote: >> Thanks for making this conversation so interesting ;) > > Having started this thread I also have to thank you all! > > I only like to point again to some theoretical insights about > "Gamification" given by this class (it's free!): > https://class.coursera.org/gamification-2012-001/class/index > (funny question from the course syllabus: "Is this course gamified?" :->) > > -- Stefan > > > 2012/9/25 Stéphane Guidoin <[email protected]>: >> Thanks for making this conversation so interesting ;) >> >> To come back on Kate's comment: Recently I had a discussion with some game >> designers (about "gamification" of the use of public transportation). Their >> main point was the following: if you start giving some incentives for some >> stuff that people could do by themselves, you transform a task into a quest >> for the incentive and you destroy self motivation. The higher the incentive, >> the more destructive. After that, people will expect an incentive to do it >> again. Basically, once you started giving some incentives, you might have to >> maintain them for ever. When it's badges, it's not such a big deal, but when >> it comes to real things, it can become much more difficult to deal with. >> (You have similar arguments/discussion in the children education literature) >> >> This vision/explanation is a bit extrem but it's important to know this kind >> of side effect of "incentivisation" (which is one of the important element >> of "gamification" that is not known enough). >> >> Many of the recent game designs since the first online muti-player games >> rely on the sense of community and self-organization. So it comes close to >> what Aaron said. We fall back on another buzzword: community management. >> There's a lot of that in order to have initiative like OSM (and open source >> software) to thrive and be fun. >> >> (As for projections, Aaron... I still have difficulties to see them as a >> game. :p) >> >> Steph >> >> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Aaron Straup Cope >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> There was an expression that got floated around Flickr a lot about >>> building "small tools for self-organization". >>> >>> Which meant that you designed something with an actual goal or function in >>> mind but whose functional "fence posts" where only high enough to channel >>> the behaviour but no so high that they couldn't be easily jumped. >>> >>> This happened all the time. People build elaborate "games" on top of >>> tagging and groups. Given any system that is both easy and fun (or reward >>> enough) they will build a "game" around it because it makes life a little >>> bit better. >>> >>> Denis Crowley's history of the badges at 4sq remains one of the best >>> examples of this. To hear the story the badges started as a funny-haha thing >>> and it was the users themselves who turned it into a "game". >>> >>> The problem is that geo has always been a game; if map projections aren't >>> a game then I no longer know how to make sense of the world. >>> >>> It's not clear to me whether we're talking about play or just a TO DO list >>> (tasks) dressed up as a game. >>> >>> It seems like a tricky road for GIS in the abstract, and OSM specifically, >>> to go down because both are (mostly) concerned with a more-accurate-than-not >>> ground truth. That will out of necessity make for some pretty cerebral >>> games. >>> >>> Tweaking the OSM tagging system to show the LHC at CERN is awesome >>> (really) but the project becomes something else entirely if everyone uses it >>> as a continual partial mood-ring. >>> >>> Rather than thinking about "gamifying" geo maybe it's more useful just to >>> think about specific goals with clear reasoning and simple, elegant >>> interfaces for accomplishing them. >>> >>> Which sounds a lot like... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/25/12 3:07 AM, Stefan Keller wrote: >>>> >>>> Anselm, >>>> >>>> I think one should differenciate between "Serious Games" and "Gamified >>>> Applications". >>>> >>>> You are describing educational games aka "Serious Games" (and >>>> http://lemonopoly.org is actually cool!) - and I'm more after making >>>> repetitive (but high level) tasks inside a broader application more >>>> fun. In the latter there's a grey zone to pure entertainment, like >>>> "play as you commute" or when you are idle, while in fact you are >>>> contributing to capturing and quality checking of map data. >>>> >>>> Yours, S. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2012/9/25 Anselm Hook <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>> Echoing Kevin: 'gamification' doesn't really make sense to me; it >>>>> doesn't capture the essence of what is going on - it's not an awful >>>>> term but it is kind of like a bubble gum theory - it doesn't explain >>>>> it just recasts in new language. >>>>> >>>>> The term I like more is 'cartoonification' : taking the complexity of >>>>> the world and translating into something that anybody can understand. >>>>> People are pretty busy and don't really have time to understand >>>>> complex ideas in every domain - games are a way to connect goals to >>>>> primal human instincts... and well I dunno.. more fun. >>>>> >>>>> Recently my team launched an app called Dekko - http://dekko.co that >>>>> explores the technical requirements around this; we're doing "strong >>>>> AR" where we tightly bind augmented information on top of the real >>>>> world by building a 3d point cloud in real time that you can overlay >>>>> data on. It could be used for those kinds of apps ( as the technology >>>>> improves ). >>>>> >>>>> For example some day (as I've mentioned ad nauseum) I really want to >>>>> try build a watershed modeler where you can hold up AR glasses and >>>>> look around you and see nearby watersheds and cartoonified versions of >>>>> some of the wildlife. I was thinking fishes would be easiest. Each >>>>> fish would be a proxy stand in for say 10000 fish and it's health and >>>>> demeanor would hint at the underlying data. The idea then would be to >>>>> try daylight streams, remove dams or tires and garbage, remove >>>>> concrete channels etc - and otheriwse heal streams. The fishes would >>>>> become your friends and thank you as the river system health >>>>> improved... (or die horrible deaths). >>>>> >>>>> Also, personally my friend Chach and I recently did >>>>> http://lemonopoly.org which is a slow game - designed to be played out >>>>> over a period of a decade or so. It is an urban agriculture focused >>>>> experience where the win condition is "to make the Bay Area lemon >>>>> independent". There are viruses affecting lemon trees and other >>>>> concerns which help connect a fun light game experience to something >>>>> that has real meaning. >>>>> >>>>> I usually have 3 critieria for work: 1) It should be fun to do 2) It >>>>> should cover its own costs 3) It should have meaning. I like the idea >>>>> of connecting games to the real world because the real world is >>>>> awesome and I don't really like being inside very much anyway; so >>>>> helping other people value the outside too I figure would make more >>>>> outside exist. >>>>> >>>>> There's a huge community of experience designers in the bay area who >>>>> do stuff like that - JTTEON is an amazing example of this. Has totally >>>>> changed how I see city streets. There's also the Come Out and Play >>>>> festival going on soon... http://comeoutandplaysf.org/ ... and too >>>>> much other stuff to scribble in the margins of this brief note... >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Eric Wolf <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The USGS National Map Corps ( >>>>>> http://nationalmap.gov/TheNationalMapCorps/ ) >>>>>> is hoping to use game-like concepts in the future. There is a stated >>>>>> intent >>>>>> to engage Scouts, 4H and schools. Because the program only works on a >>>>>> small >>>>>> set of features, it's easier to guide people towards quality rather >>>>>> than >>>>>> quantity. The USGS is specifically trying to create program that is >>>>>> sustainable and ensures completeness. There will be an "editorial" >>>>>> level >>>>>> called Adopt-a-Quad which is designed to encourage quality review. The >>>>>> great >>>>>> thing about something like a scout badge is that every year there are >>>>>> new >>>>>> scouts reaching the level where they want to acquire the badge >>>>>> (sustainable). By "gamifying" the Adopt-a-Quad, the more remote areas >>>>>> stand >>>>>> a better change of being mapped (completeness). >>>>>> >>>>>> -Eric Wolf >>>>>> (Speaking unofficially) >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. The USGS is still working on the Open File Report on Phase 2 of >>>>>> the >>>>>> program that includes data relating quantity and quality. Watch for >>>>>> those >>>>>> publications soon. >>>>>> >>>>>> -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- >>>>>> Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Keller <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I stumbled upon Gamification. Seems to be a hype now. >>>>>>> Does anybody have experience with (or ideas about) "Gamification of >>>>>>> GIS" and/or "Gamification of OpenStreetMap"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours, Stefan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> @anselm 415 215 4856 http://twitter.com/anselm >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Geowanking mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Stéphane Guidoin >> Director, Transportation >> Open North >> 514-862-0084 >> http://opennorth.ca >> Twitter: @opennorth / @hoedic >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >> _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
