Salut Stéphane 2012/9/25 Stéphane Guidoin <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for making this conversation so interesting ;)
Having started this thread I also have to thank you all! I only like to point again to some theoretical insights about "Gamification" given by this class (it's free!): https://class.coursera.org/gamification-2012-001/class/index (funny question from the course syllabus: "Is this course gamified?" :->) -- Stefan 2012/9/25 Stéphane Guidoin <[email protected]>: > Thanks for making this conversation so interesting ;) > > To come back on Kate's comment: Recently I had a discussion with some game > designers (about "gamification" of the use of public transportation). Their > main point was the following: if you start giving some incentives for some > stuff that people could do by themselves, you transform a task into a quest > for the incentive and you destroy self motivation. The higher the incentive, > the more destructive. After that, people will expect an incentive to do it > again. Basically, once you started giving some incentives, you might have to > maintain them for ever. When it's badges, it's not such a big deal, but when > it comes to real things, it can become much more difficult to deal with. > (You have similar arguments/discussion in the children education literature) > > This vision/explanation is a bit extrem but it's important to know this kind > of side effect of "incentivisation" (which is one of the important element > of "gamification" that is not known enough). > > Many of the recent game designs since the first online muti-player games > rely on the sense of community and self-organization. So it comes close to > what Aaron said. We fall back on another buzzword: community management. > There's a lot of that in order to have initiative like OSM (and open source > software) to thrive and be fun. > > (As for projections, Aaron... I still have difficulties to see them as a > game. :p) > > Steph > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Aaron Straup Cope > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> There was an expression that got floated around Flickr a lot about >> building "small tools for self-organization". >> >> Which meant that you designed something with an actual goal or function in >> mind but whose functional "fence posts" where only high enough to channel >> the behaviour but no so high that they couldn't be easily jumped. >> >> This happened all the time. People build elaborate "games" on top of >> tagging and groups. Given any system that is both easy and fun (or reward >> enough) they will build a "game" around it because it makes life a little >> bit better. >> >> Denis Crowley's history of the badges at 4sq remains one of the best >> examples of this. To hear the story the badges started as a funny-haha thing >> and it was the users themselves who turned it into a "game". >> >> The problem is that geo has always been a game; if map projections aren't >> a game then I no longer know how to make sense of the world. >> >> It's not clear to me whether we're talking about play or just a TO DO list >> (tasks) dressed up as a game. >> >> It seems like a tricky road for GIS in the abstract, and OSM specifically, >> to go down because both are (mostly) concerned with a more-accurate-than-not >> ground truth. That will out of necessity make for some pretty cerebral >> games. >> >> Tweaking the OSM tagging system to show the LHC at CERN is awesome >> (really) but the project becomes something else entirely if everyone uses it >> as a continual partial mood-ring. >> >> Rather than thinking about "gamifying" geo maybe it's more useful just to >> think about specific goals with clear reasoning and simple, elegant >> interfaces for accomplishing them. >> >> Which sounds a lot like... >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> >> On 9/25/12 3:07 AM, Stefan Keller wrote: >>> >>> Anselm, >>> >>> I think one should differenciate between "Serious Games" and "Gamified >>> Applications". >>> >>> You are describing educational games aka "Serious Games" (and >>> http://lemonopoly.org is actually cool!) - and I'm more after making >>> repetitive (but high level) tasks inside a broader application more >>> fun. In the latter there's a grey zone to pure entertainment, like >>> "play as you commute" or when you are idle, while in fact you are >>> contributing to capturing and quality checking of map data. >>> >>> Yours, S. >>> >>> >>> >>> 2012/9/25 Anselm Hook <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> Echoing Kevin: 'gamification' doesn't really make sense to me; it >>>> doesn't capture the essence of what is going on - it's not an awful >>>> term but it is kind of like a bubble gum theory - it doesn't explain >>>> it just recasts in new language. >>>> >>>> The term I like more is 'cartoonification' : taking the complexity of >>>> the world and translating into something that anybody can understand. >>>> People are pretty busy and don't really have time to understand >>>> complex ideas in every domain - games are a way to connect goals to >>>> primal human instincts... and well I dunno.. more fun. >>>> >>>> Recently my team launched an app called Dekko - http://dekko.co that >>>> explores the technical requirements around this; we're doing "strong >>>> AR" where we tightly bind augmented information on top of the real >>>> world by building a 3d point cloud in real time that you can overlay >>>> data on. It could be used for those kinds of apps ( as the technology >>>> improves ). >>>> >>>> For example some day (as I've mentioned ad nauseum) I really want to >>>> try build a watershed modeler where you can hold up AR glasses and >>>> look around you and see nearby watersheds and cartoonified versions of >>>> some of the wildlife. I was thinking fishes would be easiest. Each >>>> fish would be a proxy stand in for say 10000 fish and it's health and >>>> demeanor would hint at the underlying data. The idea then would be to >>>> try daylight streams, remove dams or tires and garbage, remove >>>> concrete channels etc - and otheriwse heal streams. The fishes would >>>> become your friends and thank you as the river system health >>>> improved... (or die horrible deaths). >>>> >>>> Also, personally my friend Chach and I recently did >>>> http://lemonopoly.org which is a slow game - designed to be played out >>>> over a period of a decade or so. It is an urban agriculture focused >>>> experience where the win condition is "to make the Bay Area lemon >>>> independent". There are viruses affecting lemon trees and other >>>> concerns which help connect a fun light game experience to something >>>> that has real meaning. >>>> >>>> I usually have 3 critieria for work: 1) It should be fun to do 2) It >>>> should cover its own costs 3) It should have meaning. I like the idea >>>> of connecting games to the real world because the real world is >>>> awesome and I don't really like being inside very much anyway; so >>>> helping other people value the outside too I figure would make more >>>> outside exist. >>>> >>>> There's a huge community of experience designers in the bay area who >>>> do stuff like that - JTTEON is an amazing example of this. Has totally >>>> changed how I see city streets. There's also the Come Out and Play >>>> festival going on soon... http://comeoutandplaysf.org/ ... and too >>>> much other stuff to scribble in the margins of this brief note... >>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Eric Wolf <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The USGS National Map Corps ( >>>>> http://nationalmap.gov/TheNationalMapCorps/ ) >>>>> is hoping to use game-like concepts in the future. There is a stated >>>>> intent >>>>> to engage Scouts, 4H and schools. Because the program only works on a >>>>> small >>>>> set of features, it's easier to guide people towards quality rather >>>>> than >>>>> quantity. The USGS is specifically trying to create program that is >>>>> sustainable and ensures completeness. There will be an "editorial" >>>>> level >>>>> called Adopt-a-Quad which is designed to encourage quality review. The >>>>> great >>>>> thing about something like a scout badge is that every year there are >>>>> new >>>>> scouts reaching the level where they want to acquire the badge >>>>> (sustainable). By "gamifying" the Adopt-a-Quad, the more remote areas >>>>> stand >>>>> a better change of being mapped (completeness). >>>>> >>>>> -Eric Wolf >>>>> (Speaking unofficially) >>>>> >>>>> P.S. The USGS is still working on the Open File Report on Phase 2 of >>>>> the >>>>> program that includes data relating quantity and quality. Watch for >>>>> those >>>>> publications soon. >>>>> >>>>> -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- >>>>> Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Keller <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Recently I stumbled upon Gamification. Seems to be a hype now. >>>>>> Does anybody have experience with (or ideas about) "Gamification of >>>>>> GIS" and/or "Gamification of OpenStreetMap"? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, Stefan >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> @anselm 415 215 4856 http://twitter.com/anselm >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Geowanking mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Geowanking mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Geowanking mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org > > > > > -- > Stéphane Guidoin > Director, Transportation > Open North > 514-862-0084 > http://opennorth.ca > Twitter: @opennorth / @hoedic > > > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org > _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
